Vicki 0:05
Do you consider yourself resilient? And what does that even mean to you? In this podcast Resilient Entrepreneurs with Two Four One we chat with business owners about what resilience means to them, and we go deep!
Laura 0:20
What we've learned from running our own business is you're never alone even when it feels like it. So tune in anytime to this podcast. We're always here for you celebrating resilient entrepreneurs just like you. We're Laura and Vicki from Two Four One, a marketing company for early stage business owners who want to launch, grow and be resilient.
In this podcast episode I got the opportunity to put my partner Vicki in the hot seat and you might be surprised at what this former radio presenter and TV anchor has to say about it. Equal parts Bermudian and Australian she's moved from one side of the globe to the other more than once, she's well traveled and naturally one of the best storytellers I know, and her personal story, well that is equal parts fascinating and inspirational. From the darkest depths of a deeply personal business failure to co-founding our marketing company Two Four One (241) Vicki is now living her best life on her terms and believes anything is possible. Hold on for the ride folks this episode goes deep.
Hello and welcome. Today we have Vicki in the hot seat, I am so excited. Today I get to interview you and put you on the other side which is I know not your comfort zone, that's okay. It's okay, bear with us, we'll get through it.
Vicki 1:36
It's all about taking risks in life, right?
Laura 1:39
Exactly, exactly, partner and it is time to tell your story because I know an awful lot about you but our listeners don't, and I'm sure there's a few things that I might even learn about you today. So I'm really excited to take the opportunity to be the one who gets to interview you for a change. All right so let's kick it off with a nice easy question. What is one thing that people might be surprised to learn about you?
Vicki 2:03
Okay, well one thing might be that I don't like being on this side of the camera. So there's quite a few things I think that people don't know about me and I think a part of that is because I like to be the person that just sits off and listens and observes a room and soaks it all in. And you know I'm happy to engage in conversation but I'm not the person that wants to always talk about myself or tell my story. I find this a little stressful but you know if we don't stress a little we don't grow. I did start my career as a radio presenter and documentary producer and then went on to be a TV anchor, a news anchor and producer so you'd think I'm perfectly comfortable in front of a camera? Well, that's not the case because I always had a script, I always knew exactly what I was talking about because I'd covered the story. You know, this is a very different game, so not to harp on that. But that is one thing that people may not already know about me. I started that whole career in my late teens whilst I was at university and that was probably my first love and then I went on to be Assistant News Director in my 20s or so. And then I moved on from that career. I was very idealistic, I'll tell you the first time I left broadcasting was because I was wrestling with this politics of news versus telling the truth and I was very idealistic and I just couldn't bring myself to succumb to the pressures of politics. Enough said, there's another story behind that but I think it happens everywhere, you're just forced to either not run a story or to run it differently to what really happened because of other more influential forces, and I just said yeah, I'm not having any part of that. I know now at this stage of life that that's normal and that one has to accept that and navigate that, but I was a bit wet behind the ears on that. So look, there's some other kind of fun things that are not so work related. I went swimming in Antarctica over Christmas several years back, although I use the word...
Laura 3:56
That sounds amazing.
Vicki 3:58
It is, it is. It's one of those flags that I'm very proud to wave, but I do use the word 'swim' lightly, I mean, it was more of a race into the water from the beach, plunge in, full head dive and then get out as quick as I bloody could. It was sooo cold, but what a great experience if you're there, I mean, how could you not do that? Right?
Laura 4:19
Yeah, exactly. You can't miss that opportunity. Yeah, that is very cool. I hope you saw lots of penguins there in Antarctica.
Vicki 4:27
A few too many, if I'm even allowed to say that! I mean, you'd never think you'd get sick of penguins but it's possible. Just day after day after day of penguins, different types, it was just fascinating, it's such an incredible world we live in and being out there just makes you realise how incredible and precious this world is.
And so I'm going to add one more. Can I squeeze one more in? Yeah, of course. Okay so I got my name in the New York Times, The New York Times newspaper. And so how did I do that? Because I took part in the New York Marathon and the rule is that if you finish within five hours your name is listed, so that's my claim to fame, my name was in the New York Times! I ran five marathons in that year when I was 40. I was trying to prove something to myself, do you think?
Laura 5:15
Yeah, that's a big accomplishment. That's really impressive. Being a marathoner. I've heard the New York Marathon is one of the best, everyone raves about that one. Very cool, great experience. Wow, that's like a bunch of lifetimes in one lifetime already and we haven't even started talking business yet. Let's talk a little bit about business, let's talk a little bit about those early days in business when you first started out as an entrepreneur, what was that for you, how were those first few months when you took the plunge into entrepreneurship.
Vicki 5:43
I don't remember there being a jumping off point, I feel like it was always there. Look, from as early as eight years old, I was writing, offering business advice, whatever that is, mentoring for my mum actually, we were an incredible partnership, and we just took on the world and she would be doing things and I'd be her backing, you know, it was just her and I growing up, and although there was no money being exchanged, so that's I guess, where I got into that pattern and comfort of being able to do that and so then when friends and colleagues needed help as I got older, I put a price on it and then away we went so it was just started as a freelancing thing. I had jobs along the way and then at one point freelancing became more of the jobs. It was like maybe one job naturally came to an end or I moved to a different country, I did a lot of that moving countries, so I'd always have to find something when I landed and that would be What can I do for myself? How can I get out there? Who can I connect with? So I guess that's how it all began. I've always been a huge fan of Richard Branson. I've read and followed a lot of his stuff. I remember his book, Losing My Virginity made such an impact on me and what's possible in business, talk about resilience, right? Hey, should we get Richard Branson on?
Laura 6:53
Yep. Any day, Mr. Branson if you're listening, please, you are invited on this podcast, we would love to talk to you, absolutely.
Vicki 7:03
That would be a dream. Yeah. So I just think he's a champion of being in business for yourself and just doing whatever it takes to get where you want to go. And that kind of helped spur me on back in those early days.
Laura 7:16
And taking risks, I mean, that's the one thing that moved me about him a lot is how he took risks and accepted failures, along with the successes and just kept going, persevering, for sure. Resilience is definitely his middle name. So what's the best thing you feel about being entrepreneur? Like, what is it for you?
Vicki 7:31
For sure it's just living my best life, living life on my terms. That's it, in a nutshell.
Laura 7:36
Living life on your terms, yeah that's brilliant. Well, it makes it sound so easy but you know, we all know that entrepreneurship is not easy. Did you ever have a moment when you wobbled or you wanted to quit? What was that like, what were the tough times like?
Vicki 7:51
Hmmm, I'm not sure we want to go there, but we'll go there. With the greatest light comes the deepest darkness, right? So yes, I very much thought about quitting, I thought about quitting in a very serious and permanent sense. There was a dark period in my life and it was triggered by a business failure. And I'm sure there were other things going on in my life that you know, had I not had those things going on, then I might have bounced a little bit easier. But given the set of circumstances that came together at the time I just plummeted and I plummeted into a very deep, looking back I guess I was depressed but it didn't feel like it at the time, it just felt like failure. And I just didn't know what to do with it, I didn't know where to go. I had a lot of shame around it so I didn't want to talk to anyone who I knew, about it. I even took on a business coach at the time and she just couldn't get me to move forward. I didn't even express that I was stuck with her, she was just giving me homework and we were talking very, you know, up, and yep we're going to do this and this. And then I'd get off the call and just go, Oh, I can't do that. It was a very stuck place. But I'd love to tell you the business that failed. And I think the biggest lesson for me from it was that I think I went into their business for the wrong reasons. I thought it was a calling and every, all the signs that led to it being a calling, this is what I was meant to do. I was on a mission, I'll tell you about it, but in hindsight, I believe I took on that business because I didn't have a job and I was trying to create a job for myself, I was trying to create income and to me, that's a very good lesson in you know, as much as I thought I had an emotional connection and a calling and a mission, I was really doing it because I needed the money, which isn't usually a good success formula. So, look, in a nutshell, what happened was I bought a franchise. So with a franchise comes regular overheads, so you need to be making the income to at least cover those overheads plus whatever else you're committed to. So I had recently qualified as a yoga instructor, which might be another thing people didn't know about me and I just love, I love yoga still to this day, but I just could see the impact it had on people who were in my classes and after every class at least two people would come and say I feel just so much lighter or just feel more peaceful with the world, like the world was right and this opportunity came along with a franchise to share yoga with children. And I thought how incredible if every child in every school could just feel that inner peace, that sense of being able to relax and having the tools from such a young age to cope with life, just through some simple yoga techniques, and I still love that mission and I'd still love to see that happen, I just know that I'm not the person to drive that mission, trust me. So yeah that that was the business and it worked in as much as when we had classes with kids we'd ask them afterwards What's your favourite part of the class and it was always savasana, that final resting position. And they'd feel that calm and the room would be just, I'd bring them out of the savasana with a copper bell and chimes and light, and they, there would just be this very obvious peacefulness in the room. It's interesting you think about kids and racing around and there was a bit of that in the yoga class, but they always came to that peaceful moment and they were learning how to do it themselves and that gave me a great sense of satisfaction. Anyway, it just didn't take off, kids yoga just wasn't mainstream enough. It didn't matter how much I marketed or worked at it, and also I was getting in my own way. I learned a lot about myself in that and I think business is one of the best psychology exercises you can ever do.
Laura 11:20
Yes. Yes. That is very true. So what did you learn?
Vicki 11:24
Look it was mostly about self esteem, self worth, you know, I was trying to sell myself and my mission and my vision. I've always found it easier to do that for other people. It was very much about that and also getting into, I had done my due diligence, I'd crunched the numbers but I guess I just got into it for the wrong reason. I mean, hindsight is 20/20 and would I do it again, for this one? Probably not. It was way too painful. The sense of failure just crushed me you know, it wasn't even about learning, it was about failure. I fell into like despair because I had my sights set so high and I felt like I'd let down a whole world of children, you know? Yeah. So anyway I sold off my assets, whatever I had, I paid back some debts, I still had, you know, looming debts and so this was all in my 40s, right? So kind of telling myself I'm old enough to know better, you know, which puts more pressure on you. And so anyway, guess what I did, I took a job at a grocery store because I needed to pay my bills. I didn't know, it was a week to week thing, I had to cover the rent. So and then I took a job as a newspaper deliverer at 40-something because I had to force myself out of the house and do exercise and I knew I wouldn't do it by the way I was feeling, any other way, so I took this job because I knew I couldn't call in sick, it had to be done and it would get me out exercising and the pay was crap, right, of course, I mean this is what kids do when they're at school, but it actually pulled me out so yeah, not my proudest moment but I guess on the flip side, it was a proud moment.
Laura 12:57
And definitely some resilience it would have taken there just to get yourself through that, and a lot of humility too I imagine.
Vicki 13:07
I guess resilience to me is something that you look back on and say, Oh, yeah, I was, you know, when you're in it you don't feel resilient, you just do one day at a time, one day at a time, one step then the next.
Laura 13:18
That's it and then every one gets a little easier, you know, every single one gets easier. So how did you get from newspaper delivery person to Two Four One, like what else kind of happened? What were the stepping stones to now?
Vicki 13:31
Yeah got to a stage that I got so low, I guess that would be my rock bottom, I'd go to sleep praying that I wouldn't wake up the next morning. And as bleak as that sounds it just felt like it was the easiest solution to the weight that I felt I was carrying. And I'd wake up in the morning and I just think I was frustrated, I think is the word and yeah just wishing that it hadn't happened. Should I go back to sleep and then maybe I won't wake up again, you know, like crazy stuff. Walking past railway bridges and fantasising, you know, it's, it's a dangerous game. And I'm just very blessed, very, I just think I'm very lucky that I didn't carry through with any of that and a big part of what pulled me out was probably just not wanting to create more mess you know, in someone else's world and be the burden for the rest of their life and especially when you think about the people who you know love you even when it's unspoken. They don't know what's going on and you just yeah, I was lucky. I was lucky. So lucky. Look it all sounds very doom and gloom but now I'm living my best life right and I think that's the key is knowing that to go through it just go through it. The only way through it is through it. And it's always going to be better than you could ever possibly imagine and it wasn't instantly better but wow, I've never imagined life to be as good as it is now.
Laura 14:44
Oh, that's just so I don't know, I just love hearing that so much because I think that resonates with a lot of people. I don't think there's anybody walking this earth that has at least one point in their life had those dark thoughts right I mean, people get to all different levels with it of course but you know, that's a very normal human experience, and it's really hard. It's hard, but you do, once you get through it the other side can be absolutely spectacular, and here you are living your best life. Yes!
Vicki 15:11
And I still feel like anything is possible and not shying away from taking risks or trying something new, I still feel that anything is possible, I know anything's possible. It's just, I guess how you do it or the one thing I'm more aware of now is that there are dips, you know, you can notice dips, and you start to feel a bit flat. Now I use tools, I'll meditate or I'll go to yoga or I'll go for a walk in the sun, or I'll notice what I've been eating the last few weeks and nourish my body better. There's things that I know are good for me and so I just make sure that I don't, as best I can don't get to that place again, but I'm kind of trusting that that only really happens to people once hopefully, it all came out of the blue and it was a little bit of inexperience. And so yeah, you just get to go with it.
Laura 16:00
And you learn the lessons and you learn the ways to manage life better, like you just mentioned and I think that's life and business, you just learn how to do it better. It's like, even in business when you have a failure, the next failure is not so bad and it's a little bit easier to recover from and then the next one is not so bad and a little easy to recover from and even if the next one is a huge one, it's okay, I've dealt with failure and I persevered and I've had success again, and it's okay. And that's what makes you braver and braver and braver and take bigger and bigger risks and get bigger and bigger success and I think that's a life lesson, a business lesson just in general, it's about the learning, coping, growing and continuing to persevere through.
Vicki 16:41
It surely is. I remember going sand duning, you go to the top of a tall sand dune, it's something you can do in the outback here, sand dunes on this kind of toboggan thing and the first time I did it, I looked at these enormous sand dunes and I thought, I guess it's similar to skiing or your first time skiing or snowboarding, you look at these enormous hills and you're like no flipping way I'm not doing it, I'm not doing it, I'm not doing it. And then you see a smaller one and you think, well, I might try that one, or I'll try from halfway down. That's what I did on this sand dune and that stuck with me for the rest of my life because I started half way down this small sand dunes and it was so much fun I couldn't wait to go the top at the small sand dune, and then straight after that I wanted to go to the next biggest one and it was just exhilarating, and then by the time I was doing the big sand dune there was no fear, it was just all excitement, this rocks, I love it! And it applies to so many things in life, once you've done it already then the fear is gone and like you said, if you failed a little bit, and you've come across something else, or some other hurdle or obstacle and you think, Oh, I've been there done that, I'm good.
Laura 17:51
Exactly, you go on to climb the next one, climb the next one, and that's I think, where you can get braver with risk taking and definitely there's a lot of risk taking in entrepreneurship, you have to do the thing that other people aren't doing, you kind of got to do it and you've often got to do it on your own. When people are telling you it's crazy, it's not safe, you're leaving behind a life of security, what are you doing? Why are you taking these chances? You know, and I don't know, there's a little bit of maybe crazy in there, I don't know, in a good way, I mean it in a good way, but you just gotta be brave. And I think maybe just doing the little hills first, right, do the little hills first, get them out of the way and then you can keep climbing the bigger ones. And I think that's also why a lot of entrepreneurs are in their middle years, they're in their 40s and their 50s and their 60s becoming entrepreneurs. I just read the other day the average age of a millionaire is 62, a first time millionaire is 62, and I was like that's great, I've still got plenty of time!
Vicki 18:46
You mean you're not already a millionaire? Come on.
Laura 18:54
Almost almost. Absolutely I think it's really good to be aware of these things too. OK so let's just I love this one this question, let's jump back into a time capsule, let's go back I don't know, 20 years, 25 years, knowing what you know now with all the experience and wisdom you have, what advice would you give to your younger self?
Vicki 19:16
I would say learn to adult yourself. I've only learned that in the later years and I wish I had known that 20 years ago. Life would have been different if I had been able to adult myself. What do I mean by that? It means we have patterns from childhood that stay with us for our whole life and they shape our behaviour and our thoughts and even our beliefs and we get entrenched in that, and that's who we become, but what if we weren't that? What if we were the adult, that we, when you want answers to things in life, you kind of think about going to an adult. Do you know, it's a difficult thing to explain because I am not a psychologist, but it's advice that has really helped me in the last few years, just get out of your childhood, basically, get out of your old patterns and beliefs and try something different. I think that's really what it is, you draw a line in the sand, you question your reactions to things and the important question is, Is what you're thinking, feeling and believing, is that true? Is it really true? You know, what if you're mistaken about what you're believing? So something happens and you have a reaction, but what if that reaction is mistaken? What would it look like from a different perspective, and that has to me been an incredible life tool to just step away from the drama, the victim, the Life is happening to me, and just look at it and decide how you want to react.
Laura 20:40
And who you want to be because I agree with you, I think we learn so much in our childhood from our parents and the other people around us that raised us and people who shape us as coaches on sporting teams or teachers, and all the people that when we're at our most vulnerable and open to life that we learn from, that we take on their beliefs, their limiting beliefs, their ways, their coping mechanisms, we take all this on and take it as what it's supposed to be because that's what's familiar to us. Yeah, it's a big mind shift to think about how do we want to be, who is the person we want to be? How do we show up as that person and just be that person and react as that person, it's very empowering to even think that we can in the first place.
Vicki 21:28
And we're not stuck in what we thought we should be because that's a lot of it, like you said, how other people's opinions influence us, I suppose influence is the other advice I would give to myself is to stand firm in who you are and don't be so easily influenced by other people's agendas, and that doesn't have to be sinister I mean, even when I work with clients, I'm always that person that says, Yes, we can do that, we can do that, without really thinking is that the wisest business decision? Is that the best value for me and my partner now. We can't please everyone all the time so I think it's important to step back and take time to consider what's right for all parties, the client, you, your business, and that's also true in personal affairs, choosing how to react, take the time, step back, think, OK this is what's happened, what does it mean? Is my initial reaction what it really means? Maybe not. And then there's that saying, it's always stuck with me since I heard it years ago - Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? So if both isn't an option, I'm going to take happy every single time!
Laura 22:28
Well I think that's good advice for all relationships in your life. Yeah, absolutely, to yourself, to your partners, to your business, even your clients, yeah we should live in a state of happiness, so much more than we do. Yeah. So I'm going to ask you a question off book, forgive me for this, but I think it's interesting and something that people often ask me, is about our partnership, our Two Four One business, and you moved to Australia a year and a half ago, there are people who still don't know that you're not here in Bermuda and they kind of want to know, how do you run a business on completely opposite sides of the planet as seamlessly as we do. Now, it's not as easy as it looks on the outside because you don't see these hours that we might be working and you know, that kind of crazy side of it, but has that changed your perspective on business at all? Being in a very different culture, community, you're not just in this small sort of mindset, you're in a much bigger state, how has moving changed your thoughts and feelings around entrepreneurship and business in general?
Vicki 23:39
I guess not changed as much as expanded. I feel like I can stretch my arms wider, I can breathe deeper, I can expand my ribcage more - going back to the yoga things - but this is just kind of how I imagine it. It's simply that you can do everything that you're already doing, that we were already doing, but I allow myself to dream bigger because I know it's possible. And that's not just dreaming, that's not just hypothesising, I'm seeing, I'm seeing people around me do incredible things with less than what we have. It's being in an environment, this is such an important part of business anyway, is to choose your environment, and I guess I'm blessed that I chose Australia, in that sense that you can see what's possible. There's a lot of support from government and other bodies for small businesses and entrepreneurs because they see that as the future of the economy and the recovery of the economy, especially post Covid. So there's a very strong support for that sector and that's encouraging. It also shows that there's millions of people who believe in entrepreneurship so why wouldn't you believe in it, instead of it being a bit of a struggle which I think it can feel like in a smaller community where you feel like you're a little bit on the edge or you're a little bit on the outside of the norm, Here it's very much normal. So how do we do it? I mean I was gonna say, Oh, easy. You start work at 5am and you finish at 1am! I wouldn't recommend that on a long term basis but yeah it's exciting and as we've said before, technology has allowed it to happen and we're just making the most of that and using what we have. And I think that's another thing in business, use what's around you, use what you have, leverage what's available to you, and just don't shy away from the new stuff.
Laura 25:23
That's a good tip, especially the new stuff because honestly, technology is the reason we're able to do any of this. The stuff that we have come across in the last two years, I mean Zoom was just a small part of it but Zoom is the whole reason we still have a business, I tell people all the time if it wasn't for Covid and people just becoming normal working on Zoom, becoming just part of our daily lives that we wouldn't have a business, Two Four One probably would have disintegrated when Vicki moved to Australia. But here we are and that we haven't even, people didn't even notice your move, like you actually moved and we just kept going and kept doing business.
Vicki 25:59
I remember doing a client pitch from a hotel room in Los Angeles on our way over. It was so much fun it feels clandestine like you're just doing things that people wouldn't normally accept, yeah, there's risk in it, too, I guess.
Laura 26:14
For sure it was definitely risky. We definitely just went on faith that this was all going to work out and it has, but also that one thing, one thing you and I, values that we both share is that we want people to think bigger than they do, because we want to think bigger than we are. And we want others to see the potential and possibilities of being so much greater than their environment and that's why I like what you said about choosing your environment, you know your environment can just be virtual and you can reach people across the entire world now. You know we had a meeting once with Australia, Bermuda and the UK all at the same time. You know, it's kind of wild when you think about it.
Vicki 26:52
And it's so easy to do and it's so easy to choose your community now because it's so accessible and that's one of the things that we do in The League, we welcome people from all over the world into The League because community is such an important part of a successful business.
Laura 27:06
Yeah and understanding that shared experience of being an entrepreneur I think helps, it helps everyone and it even helps us, we get just as excited to get in those conversations as the people we've invited in as our members because yeah, we leave with so much, I'm always so lifted after our Focus Hour and stuff, just because those conversations are empowering and other people going through similar situations, and we're having questions that you can help with because you've had that experience, it just feels so good, I absolutely love that.
OK partner you know we could talk all the time and we do anyway, it's never enough but I've certainly learned new things about you tonight and it's been an amazing conversation as always. And I just want to finish off with one final question so we want to ask this of everybody on our show, what does resilience mean to you?
Vicki 27:54
So I guess my story is one of resilience which we have identified in this process. I think it's about giving yourself the grace to make mistakes and fail, it's about learning along the way, always learning, having that curiosity about yourself and how you navigate the world. Yeah, just also to know that we're having a human experience so no matter what happens, it's OK. We don't have to attach shame or fear to it, it just is, it's just a human experience and guess what, there's a bunch of other people out there who've either been through or are going through, in this very moment, the same thing, and that we're never alone even though we might not be in touch with the people who are doing that, going through it. So that would be it and I guess in short, you know, it's just being OK to roll with the punches and to not turn them into anything more than they are. They're not huge, they're not insurmountable, they don't mean anything about who you are. Yeah, I mean life is meant to be easy. I firmly believe that life is meant to be easy and I do whatever I can to make that so.
Laura 28:49
I love that. All right partner thanks so much, it's been a pleasure as always.
Vicki 28:54
Absolutely. See you on the next one.
Laura 28:56
Thanks for joining us on Resilient Entrepreneurs, we're Laura and Vicki from Two Four One. We love supporting entrepreneurs especially with mindset, marketing and motivation which is why we built an incredible community of business founders who meet weekly in The Level-Up League. If you'd like to know more about it look us up at www.twofouronebranding.com
