I believe everything that has happened before and all the experiences, and even if you’re pushing back against the idea of niching down or picking something, I think, don't force yourself, you just go with it and the lessons or the feedback from your audience will tell you if it is working or not. And if it's not working, that's, that's fine, we can always pivot, we can always change our offer, we can always niche further, you know, nothing's ever cast in stone. I think that's the encouragement I want to share, that we can always change, we can always evolve as entrepreneurs, and our offers will always change as we grow, as we journey, so. Yeah.
Do you consider yourself resilient and what does that even mean to you? In this podcast, Resilient Entrepreneurs with Two Four One, we chat with business owners about what resilience means to them, and we go deep.
What we've learned running our own business, is you're never alone even when it feels like it. So tune in anytime to this podcast. We're always here for you celebrating resilient entrepreneurs just like you. We're Laura and Vicki from Two Four One, a marketing company for early stage business owners who want to launch, grow and be resilient.
Welcome to Abigail Chee and we're so excited to have you on the Resilient Entrepreneurs podcast today. Abigail's a Parent Coach and she's joining us from Singapore. And what is a Parent Coach you might ask? Well, we're going to find out a whole lot about that in today’s episode, but just o you have a bit of an idea going in, it's a person who helps parents, and in Abigail's case, particularly with children who they find to be disruptive. So we're going to find out all about what that's about and why anyone would possibly choose to work with disruptive children. So welcome, Abigail.
Hello. Hello, Vicki. Hello, Laura. Thank you for having me on the podcast and I'm really excited to be here today.
Thank you, we are so excited for you to join us. I love this global community we are in, I'm in Bermuda, Vicki's in Australia, you're in Singapore and we still found a way to all meet and get together today, which is amazing. Yeah, really appreciate you being here. So Abigail, tell us a little bit about what you do, just so people can have a little bit of an understanding of it.
Right. So I am a parent coach and I help moms with distracted kids to help their kids focus better, through understanding, connecting and then coaching their kids. So I think the whole idea is to help these distracted kids kind of self manage a bit better, they won't be so disruptive because a lot of the problems come when our distracted kids don't want to do their work, and they get into a meltdown and all sorts of fun things, right, that we don't usually want to deal with. But I think these kids are very unique, very unique, and there's a way to help them to self manage and become more confident and self motivated to do the things that they need to do.
And I can't help but think that that must be a Godsend for parents, because there's nothing more stressful than your child being distracted or disruptive and you don't really know what to do, and then I can't imagine what that also does for the relationship between the parent and the child.
Yeah absolutely. So it kind of started with my own son falling into this group of kids. And then as I did more research I was wondering is he ADHD and all that, but we brought him for a diagnosis within the public system, but they said, Oh, he's okay he's not failing too much. I'm like, What do you mean he’s not failing too much? He's screaming at me at home every single day. Like, all right, if you say he's not ADHD then what is he? So that's when I started doing my research and I realized that yeah, ADHD is a spectrum, right, so you can be anywhere on the spectrum and you can be high functioning you can be very, you're coping well with life and all that but then in the middle somewhere, things start falling apart. And then at the extreme end there is that you're dysfunctional, like your life really, you can't function right. So there's this whole grey middle ground that nobody's talking about and parents need a lot of help. And so that's where I decided to say hey, I think I can come in, I can help with my expertise in psychology, I was a public school teacher, I did Montessori before this and now I realise everything kind of ties in together for me to help my distracted child, and I can definitely help and teach other parents do the same.
Oh, wow I think that's such an entrepreneurial story, right like we all start. It's all the things you've done in life, you can go, Oh, I was meant to do this because I’ve done all of that, that's awesome. And then how has that journey been for you and him? Is it working out? And then what's it like bringing on other clients now?
Yeah I think it's working out pretty well. I wasn't expecting to see results so fast to be honest. So we started noticing the problem maybe mid-last year and then three months later we sent him for diagnosis and things kind of was in the grey but the psychologist told me, he's not that serious to be put on medication, we're not going to escalate his case, but I'm going to send you a leaflet, okay, read through it, and then treat him as if he has ADHD and do everything you can without the medication. So, basically I had no support and whatever I knew was from books, was from research and all that. So I mean we tried it, we just did what we can, we monitored his sleep patterns, his diet, and his, and of course coached him on executive functioning and I think the more important bit really was changing my mindset as to, Oh, why are you so naughty? Why are you so disruptive? Why are you so lazy? Why aren’t you doing your work? To something that, to he has a problem, it’s not that he doesn't want to, he can't control himself. I think that mindset shift helped me become a better parent, a more connected parent, a less judgmental one and I feel that was really the whole turning point and the whole key to it. Once I established a better connection with my son, I tried to be more empathetic, I tried to understand where he was coming from, what he was struggling with, then that helped me to come from a problem solving perspective and so I was able to employ some of these strategies like coaching, executive functioning, things like that. Yeah so I think it has really worked out pretty well. In fact last term his teacher came back with a little nice note and said, Oh, you've done well, you’ve improved so much. And in fact he had a test that I was supposed to prepare him for but because I am also distracted I completely forgot about preparing him for the test. I'm sending my son to a science test with no preparation and oh man, this is really the test for a lot of my work for the past nine months. And he came back with 18 out of 20! And I asked him, what happened? Didn’t know you could do pretty well and he said, Oh I just listened in class and I thought Oh wow, he was actually paying attention. Of course it was science or something he’s interested in, it's not like Chinese which he hates, Mandarin yeah. I think that's a testament of his improving self control, his improving attention span so I'm very encouraged. So using what I have learned and my small successes, I have taught parents the same techniques and I think some of them, I've just finished a three-month course with a couple of them and they've come back recently and said that it's been pretty good, they've been deploying my strategies, it's been working, so they are very excited about it too.
It's so rewarding for you too, to be able to pass on your wisdom, your experience and see the results in other people, and I guess that goes back to you being the entrepreneur, the problem solver, tell us a bit about your journey in that regard from a business perspective. Has that been, did it just come naturally to you? Is it something that you had to work on? Have there been some dips in the road that maybe threw you off?
Right, so knowing my son is a bit on the ADHD spectrum that led me to think that it was probably me, what's wrong with me? And looking back I think a lot of it explains a lot of my own behaviours and in fact this entrepreneurship is one of them. My first job, my first unpaid, informal job was helping my dad pack belt buckles in plastic wrapping, he's an entrepreneur too so I think it runs in the family. But I never realised that because I was always brought up to study hard, get good grades, get a government job which is more stable and all that, so I was a teacher before this. And then when my kids came my husband and I decided okay, one of us should stay home and really be there for the children. And yeah so that's how I ended up being a stay home mom, and then I decided to get into this entrepreneur journey because being with kids all day at home is not not very mentally stimulating.
Yeah, I can understand that.
So I think the entrepreneurial part really scratched an itch, you know for creativity, for problem solving, and all that so I think that has been really, really fun for me. I tried lots of businesses at first, I tried selling children's clothing and I set up a subscription box business, and it all didn't quite fit, and it was only when I got into coaching and in fact just last year, when I realised my son had this problem, and I could really help with something that was a problem for a lot of people that things started to really click for me in terms of myself and my business as well. So just before this, I had a membership group, I did a lot of things, I mean Vicki would know, she's been with me, on this journey with me for the past two years. So before this, it was a membership as well but I was trying to teach parents how to do Montessori. And it's a great thing for me to do, I could do it and there was some parents who liked it and wanted to learn, but I felt that it was not a compelling enough problem, right. I had to keep selling and keep educating people, why is Montessori so important? Why you need Montessori in your life. But people were just not buying it, they're like, no I'm good, I can send my kids for enrichment classes, I can send my kids to traditional schools, I don't need Montessori. But then when my distracted child came along and we found out his problem, and I started sharing it on social media, that's when I really got a lot of response, which was lacking before and I would speak to a vacuum and nobody would DM me, nobody would talk to me and I was just really sad and discouraging. But now it's every time I put out something and ask a question, people would respond and say, Oh my gosh, you're just speaking my language, you are describing my problem. So that has been a really good entry point and an experience for me that, you know, there really is a difference when I hit a problem and I can solve it and it's a sweet, it's really a sweet spot between your gift in the problem area and what the market wants from you, and what you can fulfil for others.
Absolutely that's it. That's nailed it, exactly right and I was just thinking as you're speaking, you solved the problem that you needed some help with, so you needed support, you looked for support, didn't find the support, figured so much out on your own, pulling on your own extensive knowledge that you already had and then you just were like, I can do this for others. And that is it, that's all entrepreneurship is, is seeing the problem, figuring out a solution and then sharing it with others and it's a gift and I love that so much, it's an awesome story.
And Abigail, that you were able to layer the marketing over it and as you described finding that sweet spot between your client's pain point and the solution because before that you were, you were an advocate, the evangelist for Montessori but if they don't have a problem then it falls on deaf ears. And so I love that example you gave because I think a lot of listeners to this podcast and members in the Level-Up League, they feel the same way, they have a fabulous gift they want to share but they don't understand why people aren't jumping on it because it's a really good value product or service, so why doesn't everybody want it? And that's really the secret to marketing isn't it? It’s finding the positioning and the messaging that connects the person who you know really could do well with it, to the quality product or service. So I love the way you described that.
Yeah and I think having done lots of businesses before I was talking to everyone, like niching down has always been a big problem for me, I think because of my ADHD mind, I guess I was jumping from idea to idea trying to talk to everybody. And I know the gurus all say you have to niche down, you have to niche down then your positioning, then your audience and your messaging is very clear. I couldn't do that for the longest time and maybe some of your audience in the podcast are struggling with this as well, I have a feeling a lot of us do. I think it's extremely common. And I just want to encourage you that it's a journey and I believe everything that happened before and all the experiences, and even if you are pushing back against the idea of niching down or picking something, I think don't force yourself, I guess just go with it and the lessons or the feedback from your audience will tell you if it is working or not. And if it's not working that's fine, we can always pivot, we can always change our offer, we can always niche further, nothing's ever cast in stone. That's the encouragement I want to share that we can always change, we can always evolve as entrepreneurs, and our offers will always change as we grow, as we journey, so yeah.
And I think it's that failing forward, right? This isn’t working but you just keep going forward. If it's not working, it's just about that, always a forward momentum. And we've all known about pivoting the last few years I think all of us have pivoted an awful lot in our lives and especially in our businesses and that's it, and that's what I think you have to have, that flexibility as an entrepreneur. And you're listening and that's it, that's what people just need to remember, listen, listen to the market, test it in the market, they're gonna tell you and when you find that community of people who are like me, yes, me, I need to talk to you, they're all there ready to listen, and probably going to be clients and members, and all those things in the future as they journey with you and learn from you, that's awesome.
If I can share a process that I discovered, I tried it out recently with my course, I think it'd be helpful if I may share that? So before this I was always like, okay product first, service first, what do I want to teach people? And that's totally the wrong way around it. And so what I did the last time was really, it's really a symbiotic relationship, right? You have to have the offer, the offer and then you talk to people, that's your social media, and then whatever responses you get that will influence your offer again, so it's always changing, I guess and you need that, you need that response from your market or your audience to help you craft that cause or that service that you want to offer to your people in the end. So I was fortunate enough, after failing forward for many years to have a sizable IG audience, I mean I'm not starting from scratch, I'm not starting from zero, right? And then that's hard, that's always the hardest to get traction to get people talking to you. But I have an audience on IG and so it's through talking with them that I was able to craft my last course and then I decided to write my sales page first, because I would always leave my sales page to the end, after I've done everything and then I'm like, hmmm, okay, let's try to write the sales page. But by writing the sales page first, it gave me a lot more clarity about how to make it a compelling offer, how to present it to my audience and then when I put it out, and then that's when you get feedback again, is this something they're interested in? If they're not interested in? Okay, let's go back and tweak the offer, tweak the sales page, yeah, so I think that has been quite different for me this time around. And I thought it was successful in the sense that there's this process that I can rely on to keep making my offer better, to keep making my courses better.
It’s so valuable to us, that feedback, we have a saying that we love, it's not our saying but we do use it a lot is, ‘Test it in the market, not in your mind.’
Yes, yes, yes, absolutely agree.
What would you say is one of your greatest achievements in business to date.
I think achieving clarity in what I want to do and how I can help others, and getting that feedback. I think that's so important for me to take the next step. We’re not even talking about, I'm not even at the point of scaling yet but at least I see progress, I'm no longer stuck at the offer creation stage.
Do you mind sharing your vision with us? What do you see for your business or for your audience, say five years from now?
I would love to continue building my membership and helping people in that membership and in the individual coaching. I've realised that I'm best at the one-to-one context, so I love talking to my clients one-to-one really helping them dive into their problems. And then I'm able to give them a three-step action plan and my clients love it so I would love to grow in that area, and help more moms, help their kids become more more confident and more self reliant. Yeah I would love to see more families being more connected and understanding their children better because it's not just for the distracted child, I think what I have to offer is not just for the distracted child, it's for every child, but I'm choosing to focus my marketing efforts on the distracted child. And hopefully that will create enough of a glow effect to draw others in who are facing similar problems, like behavioural problems from their children, or motivational problems, but they may not be on the ADHD spectrum, per se.
So this is probably a really good time to share with people how they can get in touch with you if they fall into that market of parents.
Yeah, I am on Instagram, so you can find me at @freedom_montessori. So that's my handle for now. So you can get in touch with me and I have a membership that's open and closed but there's always a waitlist that you can get onto. I have a couple of standalone workshops for you to just get started with me to see whether you like my teaching style, whether my ideas will work for your kids. So I think that's a great place to get in touch with me on Instagram.
It's a great place to start. Fantastic. Thanks. Now we still want to talk to you more about your entrepreneurial journey. Sure. Was there ever a time when you felt like this isn't gonna work? I'm jumping off this train, figuratively speaking, you're getting out of entrepreneurship going back to work, so to speak?
Well, not seriously and I think that I'm speaking from a place of privilege because my family is not waiting for me, not waiting for my money, waiting for my business to take off for it to survive. And my husband has been really supportive and I think that's a privilege I want to acknowledge, and I don't take for granted. And so I have time to kind of figure out what I want to do, and make all those mistakes along the way. So I want to say it as it is and my journey may not be your journey and you may need the money a bit more urgently, and for things to work. But I have started so many businesses and I've quit so many businesses and I think it's really just finding out and knowing yourself what you like to do and what you're good at, and what comes easy for you so then it isn't a grind every day, just to get to work, just to get up and go, to get on this entrepreneurial journey. But yeah if I should quit one day I'll do something else, I'll find something. And it's really seasonal, right? It just goes according to our seasons, how much time do we have? Are we needed more at home? Are we needing to take care of our parents, do we need to take care of kids? What's our availability? How much, how many hours can we put in? I mean, yes, entrepreneurial journey is sexy and we think, Oh I would love to sit at a beach all day and type an email and then the money will come in but I'm still waiting for that day.
But there's always that hustle before that comes so it's nice to be realistic.
Yeah, but I think that's also part of loving the entrepreneurial life, is loving the building, the growing, the creative, it's very much a creative thing because you're creating a business for yourself, you're creating something for clients, you're, like you said, you're moving, you're shifting, you're pivoting it as you need to in the market. And so that's all part of it as well. I can't imagine ever going back to a desk and just doing what someone tells me to do all day. Exactly! I can't imagine that, you know, it seems unfathomable to me because of the creativity of being an entrepreneur, I think what draws me to it, but I definitely hear what you're saying about being all over the place and trying lots of different things. Do you think other entrepreneurs are like that too? Do you think that's an entrepreneurial trait to be a little ADHD in the mind?
I think so, I mean research has definitely shown that a lot of us, a big proportion of us who have ADHD are in business, or are in business have ADHD. But I think it's really where we shine because we are so creative and we are on the move all the time right, when we try to problem solve and it's just a really exciting thing. Yes I agree with you, I can't imagine going back to taking orders from people. But I think that's the dark side as well and I've realised this for myself over the last year on my own journey is that, why do I start and quit so many businesses? Why do I start so many hobbies and I drop them the moment I buy all the supplies? Why do I sink my money into all these, all these causes? It's because I am going for that dopamine, you know I'm going for that dopamine kick, that feeling of exhilaration whatever it is, the excitement of starting something, but the middle of the grind is hard for me. And so just knowing this helps me to manage it a bit. Like when I'm in a low and another down then I realise that oh, why am I feeling like this? Why am I tempted to do something else? Why am I tempted to change direction again? And just knowing it helps me too. Okay, let's just sit on this for a while and see if that feeling passes and that has been really helpful in helping me keep track or keep on going even though the middle part is tough when I don't see the light. Yeah. Also putting on the blinders like social media is exciting, this is exciting, that other project’s exciting but no, I need to focus on finishing my sales page. That is what I have to do right now. That's my next right step. So I need to put my blinders on, I need to focus on that.
So you’re taking your own medicine, you're taking your own advice that you use for parents and for children.
Yeah, I think that awareness and self understanding has been life changing for me.
You have a psychology background so you must have some great tips to share with us on actually how to do that.
How to do that, as in be in the grind?
Being aware or how to be self aware.
Oh right. I think journaling, or at least reflecting be it on a pen and paper like journal or digital, just note taking or app is great because it just helps you to put your thoughts out on paper and take the emotion out of it. By seeing the words on paper also helps you frame the problem, helps you contain the problem, and so it becomes a bit more manageable.
I would agree. I find that journaling, it takes the heat out of it, but it also feels like I've been heard. I've been able to say it, it wasn't a complaint, I just put it on paper like it was a fact. Okay, so now it's not in me anymore and by the way I've been heard, I'm good now, I can move on with it.
Exactly. Yeah so that's a process of self healing definitely. And I think another tip would be attacking your thoughts, or debating rather, debating your thoughts like, Oh, my launch is a failure, the numbers are so bad. And then if you are struggling with those thoughts then I think one thing you can do is to question it and be the debater and question your thoughts, like why is it bad? Why do you think it's bad? What were the numbers you were looking for? What were the numbers you've got, so we kind of try to again, take the emotion out of it, so that we don't spiral down into depression and self loathing and all that, but really look at the numbers, look at the stats, look at our expectations and again see it as a problem. And see it as a problem with the problem and not see a problem with ourselves. Yeah, I think that's important.
To have that separation yeah. One of the pivotal things for me in self development was realising that our thoughts aren't true. Our thoughts are often not true and when I learned that I was astounded! I went my whole adult life thinking, well, if I think it, it must be true, that's my thought it must be true. But actually the ego, you know, talking to us, a nasty little monkey or devil on the shoulder and it actually isn't true, it's just the story we're telling ourself about whatever's happened.
Absolutely, yeah, that's right. And we always come back to the stats, right? What do the stats say? What are our results? And then I think that helps to again, take the emotion out and just see it for what it is, it's not a problem with me, it's not that I have failed but it's just maybe the offer wasn't right, maybe the audience wasn't right, maybe I'm not communicating in a way that speaks to the audience. So I think just being in that mindset, I think of failing forward, like you said Laura, I love that phrase, failing forward is helpful. Such that we are always moving forward, always moving, and we're not staying stuck at a place and feeling just self pity.
And I've heard recently, get to the failures faster because then you know what doesn't work! And then you can check that off, Okay, that doesn't work, great. Now I keep going. Okay, that doesn't work. Okay, great. And then you can get to what does work so much faster. But it's that progression forward. That's the key and I like what you were just saying about really being objective about things and taking the emotion out because then you can make a move. Okay, that didn't work, this was the problem, Oh yeah look, I missed this whole step. Or I forgot to do big social media push. Well, what if I did a social media push next time that maybe more people would know about it, and more people might sign up. When you just take out the, I've failed mindset that I can't do this, I need to quit, it's not working, I'm no good. You know, the things that happen in our brain that isn't true. Like Vicki said, when we tell ourselves then, that's kind of the key. And that's really being resilient isn't it? Like being able to separate yourself from the emotion? Look at it objectively? Okay, what can we do better next time? And then keep moving forward? Yeah.
So Abigail, what would you say resilience means to you?
I think it means persistence and always trying to see how can I make this work. I think one of the biggest problems and pitfalls for me being so distracted all the time is consistency. I hate this word! And I feel so called out on it every time, Oh you're not posting consistently on social media, you are not doing this consistently, you're not going to get consistency. But I can start, I want to, but I just fall off the bandwagon after a while. But recently I read that persistence more than consistency. So I think the idea is that we will fail to be consistent, but we can always come back to it and be persistent about it. We don't have to beat ourselves up, oh you're not consistent and therefore we stop doing, when we stop posting on social media we can always come back and restart the ball rolling again.
Exactly because it doesn't have to just stop and then never get back to it again. Yeah, that's the key it's just keep pushing forward and I keep saying that I feel I'm being repetitive. I'm being consistent in what I'm saying today but it's funny, Vicki and I both laughed when you said hate consistency because the funny thing is that's what we tell everybody they have to do. It's about being consistent, and it does help you get results faster it's true, but that doesn't mean you have to, do you know what I mean? It's don't beat yourself up when you're not, right? Just keep going. Just keep doing what you're doing, that's so funny. I always tell people ‘be consistent’ that's the key.
It is, it is and I want to unlock the key, I want to use the key but the key is just falling off my hands all the time.
But yeah it just goes back to the entrepreneurial struggle, like you were saying about wanting to be creative and wanting to do the new thing and the next shiny object is right there and you want to go get it and oh, let's build this, Vicki and I are really good at this, let's build that oh, now we can do this, oh, this is needed. Let's go do that thing too. We heard a really good thing the other day and it was, you got it? You say it, you say it, you probably know better than me.
The saying is: innovation is expensive, profit is boring.
I love that.
We fall into that trap quite a lot. We get very excited about the innovation and of course it's expensive, because you're putting all your time and resources and sometimes money into it and then you start selling it, and it's ticking along nicely and drawing a profit; Oh that's really boring!
We’ve got to sweat the assets. We create the assets, the marketing assets, the products and services, the marketing funnel, however we're reaching our audience, we've got to sweat those assets and that's the hardest part for us multi-passionates.
But I also want to flip it and say how about if we treat profit or treat every customer that comes in like a dopamine hit? You know, isn't that exciting as well? And it's really just about how we can make things that are important in our business be the motivator and that's what I'm trying to do for myself. Hey, what if I have a customer coming through my doors in my membership? Isn't that more exciting than trying to do a new course and going through the whole grind again? Yeah, I could get on board with that.
And that's just a mindset shift. That's all that is, is just shifting your own mindset, yeah I like that.
You mentioned that the other day Laura, you said, Well we're gonna shift our innovation to our clients innovation, because we do that anyway but I think we don't recognise that win when we do it for our clients. We’d recognise a win if we did it for ourselves but doing it for our clients is just second nature, that's what we do, we create, we innovate, we get them the wins that they're looking for. So now I'm going to focus our attention, just our own mindset and say that's the exciting part, getting their wins.
Fantastic ladies, such wisdom abounds!
So you’re pretty young Abigail, but if you had to get into a time capsule, is there anything you'd tell your younger self?
That everything I've gone through is preparing me for something down the road and nothing's ever wasted. Yeah, the learning is mine, the failures are mine, the victories are mine and they will and they are preparing me for something else. And that I think God is in control and he wants to give us the right kind of success and the success that we can handle at every stage of our life. And maybe right now I'm not getting hundreds of members or hundreds of students, and maybe because I can't handle them. You know, I can't do one-to-one coaching with 100 people but I can do one-to-one coaching with 20 people. But maybe down the road I'll get better at this and then I can handle the volume, I can employ people I can, yeah, it's another journey for me and that good stuff is waiting for me down the road.
I'm excited I can't wait to chat to you again when you've got 400,000 people on your Instagram.
I'm looking forward to that.
Well this has been absolutely amazing conversation and we could probably talk for another hour too and so let's plan another one. Let's plan another chat again soon Abigail, thank you so much for joining us on our podcast. It was really great to get to know you and hear all your amazing plans and I think you have a lot of people to serve. And I hope that lots of people find you that need you. You've got an amazing niche and the message tonight was don't be afraid to niche because when you find the right one and all the passion, all of it pays off. All the hard work pays off. And I see lots of success coming for you. So yeah, thank you so much I really appreciate you joining us.
Thank you for inviting me on your podcast.
So thanks for joining us on Resilient Entrepreneurs. We're Laura and Vicki from Two Four One. We love supporting entrepreneurs especially with mindset, marketing and motivation, which is why we've built an incredible community of business founders who meet weekly in the Level-Up League. If you'd like to know more about it look us up at www.twofouronebranding.com
