Do you consider yourself resilient and what does that mean to you? In this podcast, Resilient Entrepreneurs with Two Four One, we chat with business owners about what resilience means to them as they share their inspiring stories and life lessons.
What we've learned running our own business, is you're never alone even when it feels like it. So tune in anytime to this podcast. We're always here for you celebrating resilient entrepreneurs just like you. We're Laura and Vicki from Two Four One - a marketing company for early stage business owners who want to launch, grow and be resilient.
Well today, we are so excited to welcome to the Resilient Entrepreneurs podcast Felicity Lerouge. She is the founder at Phenomenal People, and she's a leadership development and consultant. Felicity founded the company in 2010 and she’s worked with corporate clients such as British Airways, Guinness World Records, Costa Coffee, Royal Bank of Scotland as well as startups, some small to medium enterprises and some non-profit organisations, such a well rounded organisation. Her work is to support these organisations in developing their leaders, their company culture and their teams. And Felicity uses proven methodologies such as Dr. Joe Dispenza, his neurochange solutions, she's actually the first New Zealand consultant in that modality, having recently migrated to New Zealand from the UK herself so can't wait to talk about that having been through a similar migration experience myself. Felicity is also a certified Heartmath trainer, also can't wait to talk about the science of heart power transactions. It's inspiring and fascinating. And we were also going to talk with Felicity about leadership, she shows companies how self leadership and collaboration are so much more effective than bureaucratic models. She understands what makes teams thrive in a rapidly changing environment, very relevant for today's world so let's get right into this conversation. Felicity, welcome.
Thank you so much. It's a real privilege to be here today.
The privilege is ours. . So look, resilience is a word that is dominant on the homepage of your website, I couldn't miss it. So let's start with you telling us what resilience means to you and how does a person get resilience? How do we become resilient?
I'm really glad you asked this question. As you can see, it's very, it's something I'm really passionate about and I think the old definition of resilience was bouncing back from. But the definition that HeartMath used which they actually created with the Navy Seals, the American Navy Seals is actually being prepared, being adaptable, and being flexible so that when challenges come to them, they're prepared for them. They've already got what they call resilience capacity as well as the ability to jump, to bounce back as well.
Oh, I absolutely love that. That fits so well with what Vicki and I believe and it's beautiful but I have no idea what Heartmath is. Can you just go back and give me a little bit of what is that, explain that to me?
Yes, definitely. So it's a research institute, they've been doing research on the intelligence of the heart, scientific research on the intelligence of the heart for 25 years plus and they measure everything with ECG and HeartMath monitors and all the equipment that's names I can't bring to mind, but it shows how actually powerful the physical heart is in the way we run our days. And we've been really for so long, so dependent on the analytical mind, the cerebral way of doing business, living our lives all by thought, which if you've ever studied anything like neurolinguistic programming (NLP), and it talks or even Jungian science, psychology talks about the conscious mind and the unconscious mind. And the conscious mind is around 5% of our intelligence, and the unconscious mind runs the rest of the show. So many programs are designed for the intellect, analytical mind, philosophical, and you can sit there and listen to a concept and think, oh, yeah, that absolutely makes sense. Yeah, I'm gonna do that. And then you go back into your crazy life and you just go back into the old programs, because we're hard-wired. After the age of 35 we're a series of programs. But we can go into the operating system and start to tweak those programs and delete some of the ones that are not serving us and update the software. And Heart Math shows how when we focus on our hearts, we actually tune into our intuition and that can really give us some very clear direction. Now before anyone's starting to think, oh, that's woo-woo, they’ve measured it again, as I say scientifically, wired people up and they show that the heart has a huge range of intelligence. We've all had those moments where we've anticipated danger, or you’ve known the phone's gonna ring, or we just get a gut feeling about a situation and if we ignore that gut feeling, heart feeling, we afterwards like, I knew I shouldn't have done that. What we've done is measured it all and put together some wonderful, wonderful programs that show you how to tap into your intuition,and actually fine tune it because the reason why we think sometimes our intuition is accurate, and other times it's not, is we're not actually discerning what is our gut fear, intuition or hidden, something we want that we're trying to say is intuition. So Heartmath helps you to not only fine tune your intuition, it helps you to get greater clarity, it gets you out of the stress. The British Medical Association, Worldwide Medical Association say that most people live in stress 70% of the time, and that's kind of bandied around a bit and so people go, well, that's just normal. Actually, it's not normal, its the effects it has on your body are actually so detrimental that we need to actually wake up to that a little bit more and realise how toxic it can be for us physically and mentally, and build our resilience. Now building resilience, you asked me a little bit earlier, Laura, and I’ve gone off, sorry I’m so passionate about this subject, building resilience is like building any muscle, building any skill, we just need to know the process, the formula, and apply it regularly. And the thing that trips us up is, as I say, by the age of 35, most people are a mass of unconscious patterns, and if we don't condition the new practices in we’ll very quickly go back to the old way of behaving. Donald Hebb, who was a scientist that studied neural synaptic connections, says that ‘synapses that fire together, wire together’. So when we get new information, we think new thoughts, we create new neural pathways, and if we think about that information, we actually create greater neural networks. And then if we continue to go back, then those neural networks actually become, they reach our cerebellum, which is the seat of habit and behaviour. But if we don't go back to that information, then between 24 to 48 hours those networks can prune apart, and we're back to the old operating system.
Wow. So you have to constantly and I shouldn't say have to because it feels like a should. But I guess to get good at this, we need to continually practise the same neural pathways, and is that how the reprogramming happens?
Yeah, absolutely. And we also, it’s an interesting part. Heartmath talks about this, Dr. Joe talks about this, it's about setting an intention that we're going to do this, but do it with an elevated emotion. So we're doing it in a sense of excitement, enthusiasm, you know how kids learn. They're like, wow, this is amazing, isn't it? Because if it's just like ooooh, the body is, what the operating system of the body mind is built for, it's an old build apart from the frontal lobes, the neocortex, it's built for survival, not for happiness, and so that means it's built for efficiency. And if we're struggling with a new program and we don't continue and persevere, then it will just override it to get us back to efficiency, it doesn't care whether you're happy or not, the old system is all about survival. But the neocortex, the frontal lobe is the seat of our consciousness, and it's where we can make considered decisions. It's where we can daydream, and imagine and create and think about a new, a new reality we want to create for our lives. And, yeah, that's something that we just have never been taught how to use the brain functions effectively.
Wow, wow. Okay, and I think I can relate it to entrepreneurship, whenever you read a book about entrepreneurs, especially the big ones, the famous ones, they all have certain routines that are part of their life, and most of them contain some sort of meditation, journaling, and uncomfortable things like ice baths and the stuff that people don't want to do, but that's all the reasons why, right? It's because it's doing the things that help to create that environment so that they can be more creative and can open up to the new.
Indeed, yes and I always use actors as a model because they're always learning new scripts, creating new characters if they want to be Oscar level actors and they have realised the payoff, to get through that discomfort is absolutely worth it to create this new character to experience this new role. Because if you think about it, how amazing to experience so many different lifetimes, as the same person, because you're jumping into that as an acting role. It's something that fascinates me. So they know the payoff is worth it. But for many of us, once we get past school, and we've got to go there, or college, and we've got to do it, because we want to get our qualifications to look credible when we go into the workplace, after that stage, we're just like, No, thank you. We don't want to put ourselves through that discomfort. And we don't realise that we're training ourselves to just stay the same..
That’s a fascinating perspective isn't it? Training ourselves to stay the same, It sounds pretty depressing to me right now. But I think it's a subconscious thing, and unless you're actively looking at how to improve, how to build the resilience capacity, then I guess that's what happens. But I think for some people that as entrepreneurs we’re probably just not happy with that, because we're always looking for the next thing, chasing the next great idea, building, letting that creativity flow.
And pushing out of that comfort zone. And that's something we talk about a lot, it's easy to stay in the comfort zone, I think that's exactly what you're talking about. The brain wants us to stay in the comfort zone, this is comfortable, this is safe, this is what we know, this is predictable, we're good here. Don’t rock that boat. But as entrepreneurs, there's this drive to push through that, because we know that next greatness is on the other side.
Yes, absolutely. And even when I've been talking to corporate managers in bigger institutions, when I was working with them in the UK, they'd say they get quite frustrated with their team, they’d say “but they're not ambitious. They don't want to do that”, and I'd say you’re managers, you have aspirations to climb the ladder, some people don't so you need to meet them where they are, rather than trying to encourage them with what would stimulate you. So yeah, as you say, some people, I think everybody is inherent in us to grow but we get conditioned out of it. And also when, you know, it depends on your peer group, doesn't it? And I think we talked about this, Vicki, when we first spoke about being around entrepreneurs. If you're an entrepreneur, you need to be around other entrepreneurs, because otherwise people just don't get it and they think you're a bit mad.
That's true. It is so true. Which is exactly why we created our membership, because we needed it too; we needed people around us who understood the journey, because it's family and friends, we've had this conversation on the podcast about how hard it can be for people who love you to even understand you. Because they're like “no you're crazy. It's such a risk. Why would you take the risks when you could have a safe job with health insurance” and dadadada, we'd argue that that's never a safe job. But yeah.
You took a risk recently in moving to New Zealand? How did that transpire and what's coming from it?
Well, it was absolutely the completely right decision. I'm really, really happy about it. What had happened with working with some of my business leaders. There was a bit of a theme coming out that people had avoided, managers had avoided having difficult conversations so then they would escalate into behavioural stuff that actually needed to be addressed more seriously. So I was involved in a lot of conflict resolution. I was good at it because I'm prepared to have those difficult conversations because for me long term, you have to have those difficult conversations otherwise it just escalates. Plus, I was long haul cabin crew for many years. So if you're stuck in a metal tube with people, there's no one you can call. So I was actually quite well trained in thinking, Okay, well, we need to deal with this. I have to speak to this customer and say no, I'm sorry, sir you can't have anything else to drink for the next couple of hours, I'll get you a nice cup of tea and most people will gasp at that, but you've got to be, because otherwise it's a potentially dangerous situation.
So I was quite good at that and did lots of work in lockdown around difficult conversation challenges, and people are interested but what I recognised was, people don't want to have those difficult conversations until their back’s against the wall most of the time. I got involved, I retrained in mediation as well to add that to my skill set because I wanted to do a better job. And I actually found it really quite draining because I'm quite an empathetic person, and when I was training for my mediation I shadowed a couple of mediators who are solicitors and I recognised they were much more suited to it, because they're very left brain analytical, they could turn off all the emotions, whereas I would be a wreck the next day, I'd taken on everybody's emotions, I'd be exhausted. So I was reassessing my life, as I think many people did during lockdown and I realised I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. Why am I? Particularly when you can see, obviously, when you're in the situation, it's hard to see the wood for the trees but from an outsider, you realise these problems should never ever have escalated to the place that they did if we were just able to communicate more effectively. So I decided I didn't want to carry on doing conflict and I also had a thought about, well, if I'm not going to do that, I'm going to pivot the business, why didn't I pivot to New Zealand? My family are here and lock down was, there were a lot of gifts in it. I've got two families, and my English mom, who was 92, and thankfully passed peacefully in her sleep at the beginning of lockdown. She didn't have COVID, she was, as I say, 92, that's the best way to go isn't it? But I didn't have a bubble and so I spent most of two years of my life in, every evening on my own, which is not good for the soul. So it was a big life change and as I say, I'm very glad that I did it and I'm loving some of the conversations I'm having here in New Zealand. Everyone says New Zealand's like a village and it's the right time for me to be here. I've had some great conversations with a company that I go into shared workspace in Auckland called the Ice House, who for the last 20 years have supported startups, and they have a great environment, they have great ethic, they’re really about supporting leaders to be the best people that they can be so I’m finding it great fun to be in there and of course they've attracted some really interesting entrepreneurs. So it's early days, one of the things I'm learning is to be a little bit patient and to be consistent. Now I'm really clear about what I'm focusing on, as you said, I'm focusing, because I did a lot of all the standard management leadership stuff for the Institute of Leadership and Management, I’ve delivered for them at degree level, and I've designed and delivered Chartered Management Institute programs and loads of other standard programs, which are great, don't get me wrong, there's a place for them but again, as I said at the beginning they really appeal to the intellect and we need something that actually drops in and below the radar and helps us get into the operating system. And a lot of it is all about if we are better able to communicate and we're all, we're more comfortable with ourselves, then most people want to collaborate, they want to create something good. But it's getting past all the filters and the conditioning to get to that place.
What a fantastic world it would be if everybody was more in their heart, and more aligned to their own values and working together in collaboration. It sounds like Utopia. I feel like what you do is the Chinese medicine of management and leadership, it’s that thing that's been there for millennia but it's still not quite mainstream, but people who try it, swear by it, and know that it really works, and obviously it works because it's been around since the first people. So it's an incredible science and a blend of bringing that to the corporate space that really, I personally hope that you can really make some huge inroads because I think the world needs this.
Really thank you for saying that, yes. When I first started discussing the work when I first started the business in 2010, and I talked about, oh, I'm helping people create heart-centred leadership in the workplace and people were like, no, you can't say that word in business, you can say trust, but you can't say heart-centred, and because I was naive and inexperienced, and because I’d come from being long haul cabin crew to retraining, and I did my a lot of my retraining when I was still crew and now I'm in this, I didn't start off in leadership development, obviously, I started off in coaching, but people were like, no, no, you can't do that, we've been in business for 10 years - and I listened to them because I felt that they should know. And one of the questions I read when you sent it over was, what would you say to your younger self, my younger self, I would just say, trust your gut. The world needs heart centred leaders; leaders who want their businesses to make a difference in the world, want their team to thrive and to develop and shine and share their unique gifts. But I was very swayed by public opinion. At the time, now I'm in my 50s and I don't care, this is what you get, it will resonate with some people and it won't resonate with others, but they're not my customers.
Exactly, yes, that is the best part of ageing, I swear. It’s that mindset change of this is who I am, this is what I'm doing and then I think that confidence comes through too, and then people are more likely to listen to you and trust you. And I think it's amazing, because you were talking about earlier, the mediation you figured out wasn't for you because it was so you needed to be the analytical person, but you're not, you're the empathetic person. So now you found the thing that brings out your best self so you're showing up as who you're supposed to be.
Absolutely. And also I'm a very practical person because I was long haul crew for so long, we're very practical people and if it doesn't work we don't want to do it. And I was doing all this stuff and thinking, why is it, I'd rather work with people at the beginning of the conflict and help them change the behaviour and help them to communicate more effectively and recognise that actually, robust conversation doesn't have to be dreadful, and a lot of good can come out of it, rather than leaving it, leaving it, leaving it, leaving and all of a sudden boom, there's a tribunal, an HR case where somebody's saying I want to take the company to tribunal because I've been mistreated, and that just shouldn't have ever happened. But something that I've recognised in business a lot, particularly in the bigger businesses is people focus on logistics and process and strategy because it's easier than dealing with the people's side of things sometimes. So if we can get comfortable with that, and with the Heartmath tools, when you can get into your heart, you're far less reactive to the world. “He did that last time”, and “he's really irritating”, and you drop into your heart, you're in the moment, and it's “okay, it doesn't matter what he did before, let's be in this moment”. Mindfulness teaches that too, doesn't it? Be in this moment and see what's really going on. So that we're not just running old patterns and prejudices and defence when it may not be that situation at all. And that works on both sides because if you go into a situation looking for a fight, you'll get one. If you go in looking at people as though your allies, Dale Carnegie said that in 1928, How to Make Friends and Influence People if you go in looking for allies you'll get allies, because you've switched off your survival brain that's looking for danger, and you're looking at opportunity and seeing the person as they are.
Yeah, and what you look for is what you find, right? I think it's absolutely spot on. Wow. One thing we do like to talk about on this podcast is what's your failure mindset? We talk a lot about failure and I believe in failing forward so the more failures you have, the faster you get to success, right? So failure is a good thing and it's really how you interpret it. So what is failure to you? What is your mindset around that?
I don't tend to use the word failure. That's personal, because I had quite low self esteem growing up so I was always beating myself up really really badly and that's one reason why I got into personal development, and then business development because I was curious about how can I make, first of all, how can I make me better? How can I make myself more acceptable? And then it was like, Oh, how can I make this situation better? So I don't think of it as failure, I think of it as a learning experience. And if I've learned something from it, and I've taken the lesson, not just kept repeating it over and over and over again, then that's the development experience. And when I look back, I remember Steve Jobs in one of his speeches, he said, if you join the dots backwards you can see there's a theme that runs through, and that's absolutely my experience. Being cabin crew for over a decade, people would say, well, how does that relate to you? How can you talk about being in leadership? Well, I know really great culture, and I've worked with really great leaders. And I've carried some really great leaders in first class, you can always tell the great leaders who treat you as though you're their equal rather than the people that are very significance-orientated, and they treat you like you're the servile person that's the waitress. And so it was a really great education from that perspective and for me, everything I've been through in my life has been the threads of the tapestry, and it's created who I am now, and mindset is very important. Because if you are curious and you look for the lesson, rather than thinking, Oh, my goodness, that was such a disaster, and don't get me wrong, I've had situations that people would have thought were disasters, I've been too trusting with clients who haven't paid me and then, in the beginning, and I've ended up having to deal with that financial difficulty, because I just thought, No, this is a great venture, and we had backers and then, anyway if you learn from it, and you learn not to beat yourself up over it and think okay, well, let's not make that mistake again but let's move forward I think that's a really much healthier way of looking at it.
Felicity it sounds like you have a book in you. You already have a book!
I've written a novel, I've just started writing my current book, Leading a Legacy, which is very exciting.
That's a great title.
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I'm excited about it.
I look forward to reading it.
Thank you, helping me get all my thoughts clear about what really matters to me, and it's been also good, great to have the opportunity to do a lot of research and see that there are more and more companies over the last 10 years, but particularly since the pandemic, that are very focused on creating a legacy that's good for their team, good for their stakeholders and ultimately, some companies are good for the planet as well. So it's really great to see that it's growing.
Yeah, there's so much in there. I love that, Leading a Legacy. It's something that I guess we can all aspire to do in our individual and business lives.
Well, we here on the planet, we can make a positive dent or a neutral dent, or a negative dent, can’t we? And it's our choice. So I think we've got a beautiful planet, we've not always treated her very well, we can all do a little bit, can't we? So that's my thing, writing the book, it doesn't mean you're going to necessarily be the Chouinard that created Patagonia $3 billion business, but huge difference to your team, we spend this, people have said, Why did you go into business rather than personal focus? And I said, Well, we spend so much of our life at work and if that's a miserable experience, it just filters out into everything, doesn't it?
Absolutely, it affects your children, it affects your relationships, it affects every part of your life, if your work life is not enjoyable. And the nice thing about you working with leaders and managers is that they actually affect the lives of all the people that work underneath them. So you're not just helping one person, you're actually helping many, many people by helping that one person, talking to that one person, improving leadership. One of my favourite quotes is that people don't leave jobs, they leave managers, and that's so true. So every company culture should focus on raising up the leadership skills of their managers. They have great managers with great leadership skills, they're going to have really happy employees, and then happy customers.
And also my premise with working with leaders is, you get yourself right first, an old cabin crew policy.
Put on your oxygen mask first?
Yeah, because if you're not at your best, if you've not got a decent resilience capacity then that trickles out into the team, doesn't it? And also, we know it's a big responsibility. Not only are you dealing with your challenges and things going on with you, but you've got everybody else that's looking up to you as a leader so you’ve really got to prioritise looking after yourself. It's not a luxury, it's a necessity.
This is such a great conversation I'd want it to continue all day but let's wrap it up with a question for you, Felicity, about What would you consider to be the most important concept for success?
I looked at that question, and I'm gonna be cheeky, may I give you three little answers. So the first one is, if you're in business, whether you're an entrepreneur, solopreneur, small team or bigger team, you have to be really clear about your vision first of all, the entrepreneurial journey can be very challenging. I don't know if anyone's read Joseph Campbell, A Hero with 1000 Faces, but it is a hero's journey, if you do it right it is the hero's journey. And we are putting our heart and soul into it so be really clear about what your vision is and what you want to create. And if you don't find your vision compelling enough, everybody's vision is going to be different, and it might be, I just want to earn enough money to send my kids to private school, great, but tweak it put a bit of emotion into that, put a bit of what will that do for your kids?
The second thing is I think we need for success now, at this time in our history, we need to upgrade our success model in business, the old model has been to work like dogs, burn yourself out and if you've got something great at the end of it yay! And part of my research was looking at the most productive, successful working environments and countries, in Sweden, their premise is you work a six-hour day, and they found that if people were working, like the American standard is a 44-hour week. So they were finding that the people were only really productive for three hours, three hours a day. So that's 8.8 hours a day, only productive really for three. But when they worked six, they were much more productive, they were much more engaged, and there was much less sickness. That's a model, I think, that we need to be working towards and as entrepreneurs as well, we and I'm speaking to myself here as well because it's not always easy, but it's a standard.
Third thing is really look after your own resilience and make sure that you're on top form mentally, physically, emotionally, and looking after your family. Most of us got into entrepreneurship because we wanted a better work-life balance or to have more autonomy but we're not any good to anyone if we're completely burnt out.
Yeah, that's fair, and so true. Because they say, leave your nine to five to work 24/7. I mean, that's what entrepreneurship feels like most of the time.
We’ve all been there, but really, no.
It takes conscious effort to put yourself first and to remember that you need to take care of yourself outside of your business, because your business feels like your baby, and you've worked so hard and you put so much into it. And when you're not physically maybe doing something, you're mentally thinking about it and switching off is really challenging. But I love everything you said about getting into the heart and when you are working with passion, with purpose, it feels completely different.
It's that beautiful flow state, which we've again, everybody's had flow state, but what we're wanting to aim for is more and more flow, and less and less struggling to get through the day.
That's where the irony is, I find myself struggling to get to the flow state like oh, I have to get the flow, I have to get the flow. Hang on a minute and take stock of what's going on here?
Indeed. I don't know if the listeners know the Salvador Dali the clock, the melting clock?
He painted that in 20 minutes because he was in flow. It’s one of his most famous, applauded works but he painted that in 20 minutes because he was in flow, and it's not just because he's an artist, but he was that really prolific he created ballets, all kinds of things that when I was looking into it. He was in an exhibition in Auckland recently. And I love to get the inspiration for success from other disciplines and art is a really great one because like we said, if you want to be a great artist, then you have to put the hours in the painting, the painting, pianists the same you've got to practise, practise, practise.
10,000 hours.
Yes, indeed. And with the acting, rehearse, rehearse, rehearse. And so to get really good at anything, yes, we do need to put in the hours and fine tune and tweak but also we need to rest and recuperate and have those moments where we can just enjoy a beautiful sunset, a nice cup of coffee with a friend. And very often, in fact, I was talking to a young guy the other day, who's my kind of ideal avatar client and he was saying, I get my best ideas when I'm not at my desk and I thought, yeah, that's why Sweden says a six hour day, get away from your desk and let the magic happen.
Just going for a walk, right? Can just open the mind and ideas will just flow. I used to sometimes just always have a journal with me if I went anywhere, but the funny thing is Vicki always laughs but I get my ideas when I'm driving because I live on one end of the island, and I always have to go to the other end of the island for something. And I've got that 30, 40 minute drive and it's when I'm in the car, and it's quiet, and it's just a little music slightly playing and the breeze. And I'm like, Ah, that's it, that was the thing and I have to send her a quick voice note, so I don't forget it. She gets random voice notes from me in the middle of her night, because it's my morning and her night. It is so funny, it's definitely not when I'm at my desk, because when I'm at my desk it's work. It's thinking about work and what's on the to do list that needs to get done. More flow, I want more flow. That's great. Going to work towards that.
And dropping into your heart will help you do that. There's lots of really great free tools on the Heartmath Institute site. So I’d just recommend to your listeners to bounce over there and see what they find interesting.
Do you know what the website is, for people to find it.
Yes, it's www.heartmath.org.
Okay, great.
And how do people find you, Felicity?
You can find me on my website. I’ve got a hyphen in there it's www.phenomenal-people.com. If you jump over to LinkedIn and find me, Felicity Lerouge, then you'll have all the links over there, that will probably be the easiest way.
Do you have a YouTube channel?
Yeah. Under Phenomenal People. So yeah, be lovely to connect with people.
All right, we'll be sure to include all those details in the show notes of this episode as well. It's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you and I really would love to continue these conversations. So I hope our listeners have gotten as much out of it as we have and enjoy listening to this episode and will reach out to you if there's something that they feel that they can align with in the work that you do.
Thank you so much, ladies, I've really enjoyed this, it’s my favourite conversation in case you hadn't guessed. I really feel really privileged to share it with you both today and your listening audience. Thank you.
Thank you, thank you so much. It was an absolute pleasure.
Thanks for joining us on Resilient Entrepreneurs, we're Laura and Vicki from Two Four One. We love supporting entrepreneurs, especially with mindset, marketing and motivation which is why we’ve built an incredible community of business founders who meet weekly in the Level-Up League. If you'd like to know more about it, look us up at www.twofouronebranding.com
