Do you consider yourself resilient and what does that mean to you? In this podcast, Resilient Entrepreneurs with Two Four One, we chat with business owners about what resilience means to them as they share their inspiring stories and life lessons.
What we've learned running our own business, is you're never alone even when it feels like it. So tune in anytime to this podcast. We're always here for you celebrating resilient entrepreneurs just like you. We're Laura and Vicki from Two Four One - a marketing company for early stage business owners who want to launch, grow and be resilient.
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Krystle Divertie is the Organisational Queen, she approaches systems and processes with passion. She loves lists and she's outrageously organised. For 15 years she has been helping businesses in Australia where she's based and abroad to discover their best internal structure and to document business processes. This, in her view, is what transforms business growth. Now Krystle is a qualified ISO Quality Systems Auditor with a Science and Education degree and today, she might convince you as a small business owner that systems are part of your entire life, not just your business. Now, when I think of systems, I think of processes. But Krystle might flip that around today, she says no matter what stage of your business you're in, smart systems can help you focus more on progress and less on process. Krystle co-founded Team Accelerate when she noticed a gap in the HR industry and brought a new twist to a long-standing profession, setting out to fill that gap using technology. Welcome, Krystle, I can't wait to hear more about how you're streamlining and transforming HR matters for small business owners.
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
So let's start with your big win. And I believe the HR system that you've developed is something that you might consider to be one of your great achievements in business or failure.
It definitely is, yes. I don't think you quite realise when you buy into software, any software Xero, Deputy, Google, any of them that quite how much time and effort and thought goes into developing them and making them work the way that the front end user knows. So yes, building it from scratch is one of my most.. my best achievements, really.
So tell us what your HR system does and how does it simplify the life of a small business owner?
So basically, what a lot of small business owners find is that they get so caught up in the doing, lots of things go in their head. So when they start to hire staff, all of that information has to come out of their head and go somewhere. And so the software, which is called Team Accelerate, allows you to pull that out of your head and put it into a really structured and streamlined cloud-based functionality which then allows you to give that information to your staff. It also allows you to implement a lot of compliance for your business so that you reduce the risk when you do have staff in your business. Because having staff, a lot of people don't understand when you start a business, how much risk that actually brings to you as a business owner.
Yeah, I saw an example on your website that you've started a new business but do you realise the risks that might be involved with, for instance, letting an employee go and the way you do it? Do you want to talk into that?
Yeah, I mean, any part of having an employee journey comes with risk. If you're hiring and onboarding people, no matter what part of the country or the world you live in, there's certain information that you need to be collecting. And then if you sit in a really specific area of an industry that is mandated with qualifications, so driver's licences, first aid, if you sit in the liquor industry, any type of licensing around being able to serve alcohol, all of these things, if you're not collecting them and staying on top of their expiration dates, then you as a business owner can get fined for having staff working when they're not essentially qualified, and the employee can get fined as well so there's a whole bunch of fines that come with that risk. And then when you have employees, managing them and managing their output and their performance, if you're not doing it in the legislated way of your country, you can set yourself up for a lot of trouble because as an employee, they can then go to.. I'm not sure what the equivalent is in other countries, but in Australia, Fair Work, and just a small fraction of a staff member doing that can cost hundreds of 1000s of dollars.
That would be like a Work Tribunal, a Fair Work Tribunal, or someone taking you to court as an employee because you haven't followed the guidelines.
Correct. And then that comes into play with what they call unfair dismissal. So if you let someone go, no matter whether you believe it's the right thing to do, if you're not doing it in the right way, they have every right to take you into court and basically argue that.
Sounds so frightening for someone who's just in early stage business, it almost wants, you just want to close the door and say, I'm not doing this. But I think it's important that people like you are around and are an available resource for small business owners to be able to rely on and not be so scared about some of those risks.
Yes, yeah. And I think no matter what part of business you're looking at, there is going to be risk but it's about surrounding yourself with the right experts to support you in understanding what are those risks and am I implementing the right systems, processes, software, data, to protect the business as much as it possibly can be?
Yeah. All right. So your greatest achievement to date around that.. I guess it's just that it is bringing this to people in an easy, accessible way. Because otherwise, it would be pretty hard to get your head around that.
Yeah, correct. A lot of HR software that's in the market at the moment, does just give you the online cloud based features, whereas what Team Accelerate does is then partner that with the legislative experts around HR and HSE, or workplace health and safety, and so you get that expertise, as well as the software.
Amazing. And I mean, just facing these kinds of risks reminds us that it is a requirement to be resilient as a small business owner.
Yes. I think as any business owner, you need to be resilient.
Absolutely. What does that mean to you Krystle, how would you define resilience?
Resilience. For me it's about putting one step in front of the other every single day, because as your business grows and changes, the problems and the challenges grow and change, and so if you just put your head in the sand, then that's as far as your business will ever go. And so for me, resilience is just taking those little steps that eventually get you to then grow that little bit more and succeed that little bit more. And I think most importantly, knowing when it's time to just take a breath because it can be really hard and some days are harder than others.
Yeah. Especially if you're have staff problems to worry about.
Oh, yeah, staff, clients, I always say ‘you know business would be really great if we didn't have staff or clients?’ We’d just cruise!
Imagine? Just getting the stuff done and hanging out and doing what you want for the rest of the day. Yes, absolutely!
I’m curious, as someone who's into systems and operations, and this being your work and your career, what was your childhood like? Were you quite an organised orderly child? What would you say that.. How has that impacted you today?
Very much. So my father was in the Defence Force and so it was very much drilled into me, mind the pun. There's a way to do everything and there's a better way to continually improve what you're doing and get faster and more efficient. And so, yes, my childhood was an interesting one with continually being challenged around, well if I'm washing the dishes, how can I do that better? How can I do it faster so that I can finish my chores and then go do the things that I actually want to be doing. And that has instilled some really foundational structure and the basics around systems and processes and streamlining for efficiency and effectiveness. Yeah.
It's incredible how you can connect the dots in your life when you look backwards and it makes a lot of sense. So when did you make the move over to entrepreneurship? When did you start taking that on?
I actually didn't jump into the corporate job career world, my journey has been very windy, I spent the majority of my 20s travelling the world and getting life experience. And so it wasn't until I turned 30, that I went, Oh, it might be time to start adulting. And because I also grew up in business which not a lot of people have that experience. And so I didn't know any different, business is my normal. And so all of the challenges that you learn when you start a business, I actually learnt from the age of 12 to 18 through my parents’ businesses. And so all of those mistakes that you make in that first one to two years of business, I was really lucky, I didn't have to make them because I already had that skill set sitting there waiting to go. So for me, when I decided to become an adult at 30, it was more around what do I want to do. And there were a few different career changes in the first couple of years and through that journey, I realized that my skill set was in systems and processes and standard operating procedures and software. And through the qualifications in ISO and workplace health and safety, yeah, I jumped pretty quickly into having my own business because it was my normal.
So you were lucky in that regard.
In some regards. Yes. In other regards, I haven't had that corporate experience. So that does limit me in the language that I've had to learn how to really connect with my target market because I've not sat in that space before. Pros and cons of all journeys.
Yeah, of course, of course. Absolutely and I love it, we all have a journey. And often the entrepreneurs’ is.. I always say I was kicked off the cliff, I didn't really leap into it willingly. But it's just the way life turns out sometimes. But you were lucky that you had a family that already understood it. And you understood it - were you were part of their business when you were growing up? Did you work with business?
Yeah, very much. So the first business was a florist business so I learnt about customer service, I learned about selling products, I learned about managing money - doing the cash flow and then from there stepped into the accounting side of the electrical business and managing jobs and staff. So yeah, over that kind of five to six year period, I very much learned the foundations of running lots of different types of businesses.
Yeah, I'm curious. It sounds like you've learned business as a first language. It's almost like the rest of us learn business as a second language. But you grew up being fluent in business. Were there any lessons that you collected as a youngster about failure and the failure mindset?
The first thing that kind of came up when you ask that question is actually the ability to compartmentalise because when you're a business owner, there are things that you have to do and deal with every day that you'd can't take home to your family or your partner or your friends because they won't understand, or they just don't have the capacity to take those quite large challenges on and so one of the best lessons I think I learned in that early time with my family businesses was how to.. when I'm at work, I am in this role and I'm wearing this hat but then when I go home, I'm in this role and I'm wearing this hat. And I think that really sets you up for success in some ways because I definitely, reading through all the different online business groups, there's a lot of people posting around how do I have those conversations at home? Because they're not being heard. And like, well, you don't, you find your people outside of home that you can have those conversations with the people that get it.
And then to really answer your question about that failure mindset, I was taught through business that failure equates or aligns with money because if you're not doing XYZ then that money is not coming into the business, which growing and having those life experiences through travelling very much came clear for me, that's not what failure is. And for me, failure is actually not doing everything that you possibly can to make sure that your dreams or your goals are coming to fruition. And if that's just what I was saying earlier, those little steps one at a time, or if that's looking at the big picture over a 12-month period or even a five year period, I know you get asked a lot, ‘So what's your five-year goal for the business?’ So for me, yeah, failure..that failure mindset is more around not doing everything you possibly can to make sure your dreams are coming true.
Oh, yeah. Little bit of goosebumps there. So speaking of failures.. has there ever been a time you've nearly quit?
(Laughs) All the time, right? I feel like, if you're not.. it's one of those things, if you don't feel like you want to quit then are you actually trailblazing and doing the things that you want to be doing because it is hard. And I think that's one thing as business owners, or when you first start in business, a lot of people don't talk about..is that exactly how hard it can be. And that's not everybody's experience, coming back to the journey, some people are just really naturally good at doing whatever it is in their business.
And so yeah, to answer your question around a specific experience that I've had where it actually happened this year because I sat down and ran my numbers for the product that I've been developing for the last five years. I'm not gonna lie, I was in the corner of my office crying and rocking for about two days. It really wasn't what I wanted it to be and in that moment, it definitely was a defining moment. Well, am I gonna let the last five years go? And is that now the time to be like, right it's just not working. Or am I going to realign my failure and success and go, Okay, what do I need to do to make this work? And it took me probably a good week to process that and figure out where I sat with those emotions and the hard cold, black and white like, well, this product is not making money. So what I want to do about that.
And so I talk a lot with my clients and my staff sometimes about putting my big girl panties on and sometimes you just need to do it, and so I figured out where that problem lied and why it wasn't a profitable product at that point in time and figured out that it was because me as a business owner hadn't grown with the business in terms of my skills and where the business needed me to be as a business owner. And for me at that point in time, it was sales. So I needed to make sure that I learnt my sales skills. So I found myself a sales coach and I just made it happen and in six months, turned it around and it's now making a profit. So an example of somewhere where it definitely was failing when you look at the numbers, but I wasn't ready to let that go.
Not ready to quit. That's incredible and you were able to identify the weak point and then like you said, you just went in and sorted it out. Congratulations! That's really quite a story.
Thank you. It's definitely a journey and I think no matter what business you're in and what role you hold within that business, it's a journey.
Yeah. And it's managing those emotions too that come up with it. Because as business founders, we are very close to the outcomes that we desire and our expectations of our business. And if one part of it isn't going as smoothly or as successfully as we would have estimated, then it can feel like the whole world is crashing down.
Yeah, yeah, I always, when things are going too smoothly in every aspect of the business, I go, something's not right! What's about to go wrong? What challenge am I coming up with?!
Life is supposed to be easy, Krystle, we deserve ease and grace, come on, let it flow in.
It is. And don't get me wrong, since I made those changes this year, it's definitely gotten easier. And I attribute that to systems and processes because I've changed the systems and processes, trained my staff in the new way, and that has foundationally then led to the growth of the business.
Yeah. Now, you mentioned that having systems in place in your life impacts the systems in your business or the growth of your business. How do those two correlate?
Well, I think, I do have a blog on my website, a lot of people don't realise how many systems you actually have in your personal life. We have a system for how we pack the dishwasher, how we do washing with our clothes, you separate the colours or you put all the big stuff together. We’re even.. we’re taught systems as a child because you go across the road and you're taught to look left and look right and look left again or if you're on the other side of the world the opposite way, until you are clear to then proceed with the next step, which is crossing the road. So we, so many people just don't realise how much our lives are actually systemised whether we like it or not, in some instances and I think business is just the next step, when you're in business of implementing systems into your life. And it's even equally, so it kind of does a full 360 because then, when you have kids, you're then starting to train systems and processes in and people always say to me, oh my God, you've got standard operating procedures in your laundry for your kids on how to blah, blah, blah, hmm, yep.
And I've done a podcast or there's a blog and a video on my website with this amazing American woman, I can't remember her name, because it was about two years ago, she's got 12 kids or something insane like that and her whole entire house has standard operating procedures which are age appropriate. So there's pictures and there's tick boxes and the kids all know what the expectation is for every area of their house. So she just runs her house like her business and I think they just go hand in hand.
Well, it's like having staff. I mean, if you have 12 kids that's like having staff, they've all got to pitch in and help out and do different jobs and yeah, you got to manage them all. Wow.
And they've all got different personalities. And they get incentivised in different ways. And it is literally when you actually stand back and look at it. It's no different.
That's true. Never ever judge a stay at home mom and think she's not working. It's more and it's hard work. Yeah, creating the systems can make the difference. I love it. I love it. What would you say is one of the most important concepts for success?
I think two things and especially if you're starting out in business. It's to be the dumbest person in the room really, to seek out people that are at that next level of business so that you can surround yourselves with people who can guide you and you can ask those questions that the people at your level or below are not going to know the answers because they're not there yet. They haven't had that experience and they don't have that skill set and knowledge and equally to ask questions, to not respond but to listen and learn. And I think that is equal no matter who you're talking to, whether it's clients or staff, peers, mentors, your family because the minute we're starting to ask to respond, we're not actually listening. And therefore, we as a person, whatever role that looks like, is not, you're not learning and growing. So if you're not learning and growing, are you succeeding?
I like it. I saw on your website that you offer three key lessons that have contributed to getting you to where you are today. And it sounds like it's a lot aligned with your keys to success being that - ask questions, understand why, trust in your intuition. I love these three points. Can we talk into these a little more?
Yeah, sure. So I guess the understanding why - everybody's journey is different. So the way that you talk and the language that you use is going to be very different to the language that I use and the way that I process what you're saying. And so if I'm not understanding your ‘why’ behind whatever it is we're talking about then I'm not ever going to understand how we're going to reach a similar outcome. So I think yeah, asking why, I ask why a lot.
And there's even some business models around it.. it's called the Five Why's, we ask why and you get an answer and then you go, ‘Oh, okay, so tell me more, why is it that way?’ And you do that five times, essentially, the model says that by the time you get to the fifth time, you've really got to the bottom of understanding that top level. So that was the first one. What was the second point?
Yeah. Trusting your intuition.
I think in society we’re, and this might get controversial, but we’re really drilled out of our innate, intuitive skill set because if you look at kids, they just.. they inherently know there's danger coming, they inherently know to go to their mum for warmth, or to be.. to feel safe. But as we grow, we’re educated and schooled to move away from that intuitive internal processing into this external brain processing, which is not always right. And so, I think the more people tap in back into that intuitive place, it's surprising how much you already know the answers to things that you're seeking externally. It's already there internally.
Yeah of course, and meditation and these kinds of practices that are becoming more mainstream, hopefully will help more business owners and leaders to do exactly that - to trust their intuition.
Yeah, yeah. But it also again it means different things to different people, right? Like, the mainstream meditation is to sit on a pillow and, ‘mmmmm’, but I mean I don't meditate in that way, my brain is going a million miles an hour because I'm sitting still. So taking the dog for a walk, going down to the beach and going for a swim - swimming laps, following that black line up and down. They are forms of meditation where you're just closing out the rest of the world and going inward. So yes, you just got to figure out what that looks like for you.
Yeah, that's a key distinction. Thanks. Because not everybody.. like you said, not everybody feels right to just try and sit in silence because there's never silence. When is there ever silence in there?!
So the third one was to Ask Questions. Is that part of Understand Why?
Yeah. Ask as many questions as you need to. And I think that old saying, ‘no question is a dumb question’. You’ve got to move past that uncomfortability that ‘oh people might think I'm weird or that I don't know what I'm talking about’, or whatever it happens to be - just ask the question, because a lot of the times, especially if you're in a staff meeting or something like that five other people are probably wondering exactly the same thing. But they don't have the courage to step outside that comfort zone and just ask.
It also reminds me, I'm recently back to Australia, having repatriated here and it was very clear to me in the culture that in Australia, you just ask for what you want, you won't get what you want unless you ask, because people don't try to guess what you want. It's quite a cultural thing and in other places, people will try to.. I don't know if it's people pleasing or what it is, but we often try to anticipate what the other person wants and then provide it. But that is absolutely not the case in Australia and so asking is a really important thing, if you want to get anywhere in life.
Yeah, we in our business, we have a key value with our staff that if you don't ask, then you don't know. And the worst that can happen if you ask, is that you get a no. Okay, nothing's changed, you just can't do whatever it is that you wanted to do. So you don't lose anything by asking. Actually, you lose if you don't ask.
Yeah, the answer is always no if you don't ask.
Yeah. True.
I like that. What do you like most about being an entrepreneur, what's the best thing?
The freedom. I think for me, being in business provides choice. So it's the choice that if I want to work, I can. If I don't want to work, well, I don't have to work. Work in terms of in the business and the choice to.. if it's a hot day, go to the beach and have a swim, I don't have to be sitting at my desk because my boss has told me I have to. And that also then leads into the choice for future Krystle and my family, not someone else's future. Yeah, so it's the freedom.
Yeah, that's it for me too. Absolutely. Do you have kids Krystle? You talk about family? Do you have kids?
Not yet, we're getting ready to go down that journey. It’s at the forefront of our mind at the moment.
Oh then you'll appreciate the freedom even more when you do have kids because the flexibility is really key. And I think it's the key to finding any sort of balance in life is being able to have a little bit of flexibility and that's what entrepreneurship does give you. Even though they like to say you trade a 9-5 to a 24/7, which does feel true. Because when you're not working in the business, you're often thinking about the business and what you could do better and what you could improve, and here's this new business idea. And me and Vicki often do it for our own business and for anybody we talk to, like, Oh, we've got this great business idea for this other person and we go down those roads. You can't turn it off but I don't think I'd have it any other way. I don't think I'd have it any other way. Well, thank you so much for this amazing conversation. I think you'll be very inspiring for lots of people and especially ones like me, who want to be a little bit more organised. And I really appreciate systems processes, these are the things that are very important to get right in your business and to spend time on. We've taken that challenge this year doing SOPs for the first time and it's really cool to have that, it really is changing for your business. So thank you very much, we really appreciate your time.
That's all right. Thank you for having me. It's been great.
Yeah. Thanks, Krystle.
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Thanks for joining us on Resilient Entrepreneurs. We love supporting entrepreneurs, especially with mindset, marketing and motivation which is why we’ve built an incredible community of business founders who meet weekly in the Level-Up League. If you'd like to know more about it, look us up at www.twofouronebranding.com
