Welcome back to Resilient Entrepreneurs, the podcast where we explore the powerful stories of business people from all walks of life and from all around the world, in the hopes that something they say will leave you a little richer in business.
Dr. Dravon James joins us in this episode. She is a transformation specialist, an inspirational speaker, a life coach, radio host and author of Freedom is Your Birthright. Dravon is also an actress, whose career includes a recurring role in HBOs, The Wire and The horror movie Wake, which really adds to her charm. So Dravon's journey began in poverty in the south side of Chicago and it has been quite a journey, leading her all the way to a doctorate in pharmacy. We are so looking forward to talking about all of this! Welcome, welcome, welcome. Dr. Dravon .
Thank you for having me. I am excited to be part of your guests and for your listening audience today.
We so appreciate you joining us. We're really excited for this conversation. So let's just take it way back, I love to know and I love an entrepreneur's journey. So how you get to where you are, and all the amazing stuff you've done, but it all starts with your childhood and where you grew up. So can you give us the insight into that part of your story?
Oh, yes, for years I owned this story as my own but my mom recently passed, and I realised that I was fortunate enough to share her story. Because she was an amazing woman who had her children, my dad died when I was very, very young, and she had three children on the south side of Chicago and it was a rough journey. There was lack of money, lack of opportunities, and the one thing we were abundant in was love and imagination and I tell people, that and perseverance, I can't leave out perseverance, and that was my mom's secret sauce to having three children who all got advanced degrees and went on to be very, very successful, was the story that she painted for us throughout all of our hardships, which were all financial.
And now, I used to hear her say this all the time that “If money is the only thing that you're lacking, you are rich beyond measure”. And of course as a kid who was hungry or looking for a place to stay that night, I didn't really know what that meant. But as I continued in my journey, I realised that, yeah, love is probably the most powerful thing you can give a person - is how to give and how to receive love and my mom did that really well for us.
And she painted a picture of - if you can imagine yourself there, you will open up a world of creativity that will really take you there if you put behind that, perseverance. AAnd why I love your show, Resilient Entrepreneurs, perseverance is nothing but resilience. It's every time you face a hardship, letting that cause you to dig your heels in more and more and say, yep, this is where I'm going, this is where I'm going. So yeah, that journey being on the south side of Chicago was hard. I tell people Chicago was cold in many ways, the weather was cold and there was a lack of money, which made our journey, so many days of wondering, what's going to be next? What can we lose next or how are we going to face this homelessness? But we did it and we did it with my mom and her faith and like I said, her recipe for success - perseverance and love and knowing how to give and receive love. So I coach people and that's one thing I find that’s generally missing, people don't understand how to give themselves love unconditionally, and how to receive love and give it to others unconditionally.
Oh, that's so beautiful. It must have been quite a leap for you. It sounds like you had such a supportive and inspirational mom, and yet, I'm sure it was still a leap for you to be in this reality and also need to be in your own self love reality, of knowing that it was going to be okay.
Yeah, I think for some reason, and I think that was the magic behind my mom because she would always say ”This doesn't last forever” and truly you cycle in life, there are really, really good days, even when there are terrible things happening, somewhere within yourself you find the resilience and it feels like a good day. And then you have really, really hard days and but in my mind, in my imagination for years that was bred into me is that, it starts with an idea, it starts with an idea, or maybe it starts with a feeling that develops into an idea.
I added the feeling part when I got older, I realised that it really started with a feeling that I'd put into my mind. But my mom's thing was it starts with an idea, you start thinking about it and you start imagining it, you create all the emotions around it. So for me, I think I had already built this world. I really had, I had already built it inside. I'm a person who could daydream for hours. I think when you don't have a lot of other things, material things, your imagination does become your entertainment, so for me walking into this world physically, sometimes I look around me, I see I remember when I used to imagine this, when I used to think about this, so it seems quite placed properly for me.
What did your mom do for a living?
My mom had her Associate's Degree in Education, but she did any job she could possibly get. Any job that she could get that put food on the table, that was the job she was taking.
That's amazing. It's impressive, her mindset. And through that, that's incredible, not everybody can do that. In fact most people don't, like you said when you coach people, it's the mindset, it's a difficult one to get to as an entrepreneur, I think especially.
It is a difficult mindset. So I think I had a huge advantage, because I did not grow up with a silver spoon in my mouth and maybe not even a plastic spoon, but I had this rich imagination given to me, or she told me how to tap into it. So I've always gone to that place and built the world before I walked into it. So it became a part of my fibre and let me just say this, it doesn't mean that I didn't have times when I thought to myself, this is way too hard.
There's nothing in my physical journey that’s supporting this, but never really did it occur to me that I would quit on the things that I was passionate about. And I think that was big for me is understanding what things, which I told you I added later that it starts with a feeling and then it goes to the mind, because my mind was, I was great at maths and science so I could think and think and think. But I realised that the things that I really was passionate about I was going to go through with it. Maybe if I had just thought of something, oh, this is a great way to make money, but I wasn't passionate about it. And I had to really sit as I got older and more mature and say, Okay, these are the things that I'm passionate about and these are the things I'm going to stick with, even if my mind can conceive, the other stuff. This is where it is for me, this is my passion, this is what lights me up. And so those things, I found that having that resiliency and that perseverance really paid off when I really followed my passion.
So I hear a definition of resilience in here. We usually ask this question at the end of the episode, but tell us how do you define resilience?
I like the word resilience. I equate it with perseverance. And I put it with passion, you probably already got that right. So I think it is the ability to every time you get knocked down or whatever that is, to stand up and say, “That was a way that I've discovered not to do what I want to do.” So I take it as a lesson learned. I take it as a lesson learned. You know, I keep notes everywhere in so many journals all through the years. And I'd write down, what did I try here? It's like a recipe, right? Oh, that ingredient I don't need or maybe I need less of that. So resiliency, for me, it's just really, it's a recipe for how to get back up, start again, use what I learned there, my pearls of wisdom and keep moving forward. And sometimes I think too, resiliency tells me, it helps me to learn more about myself too. It tells me that's how I got to the idea, for me resiliency and perseverance had to connect with passion. Because honestly, honestly, if I'm just doing resiliency, I could be resilient, I can use my intellect to do anything - any of us could. We can use our intellect to do anything but when we connect that intellect to passion, to me that's real resiliency. That's really you pushing forth your good into the world and receiving the love back from that.
Yeah, there's the magic in there, right there, that combination. So tell us, talk about resilience! I know being in acting had to take a lot of resilience because there's a lot of rejection, there's a lot of stress, I can only imagine you must have some stories of resilience through that journey too. Can you tell us a little about it?
Yeah, so I gotta tell you how, I wanted to be an actress since I was in the third grade, I'll never forget, I auditioned in the third grade for a play called Ladies First. And back then when I was a kid that didn't have a problem with telling children no. So I did not get a role. In the fourth grade I auditioned again, and I got the role of a tree. Now I was auditioning for the lead both times, I had memorised the entire play and I got the role of the tree. And I was crushed a little bit, but then I thought to myself “I’m going to be on stage, and I'm gonna be the best tree that I could possibly be.” So all those years I’ve wanted to act, from the very first day that I heard this, they used to do plays on albums, many of your audience won't even know what an album is, but back when I was a kid, it was a big CD and I heard this whole play and I knew that's what I wanted to do, I wanted to be an actress.
Fast forward on in my life, I got to do some amazing work when I was in high school at a local theatre where I got great reviews and I thought, “Well, I'm gonna go to college, I'm gonna study, the arts. And my mom, very sensible, said, No, you're gonna go to college, and you're going to do something that's going to guarantee you a job. Hence, I got a doctorate degree in pharmacy. So I put acting to the side and this is what I mean about passion. I had my first, my daughter 23 years ago. And I looked at her and I said, I can never tell this young lady to follow her dreams if I don't follow mine. And when she was about, I don't know, six weeks old, I enrolled in acting class, and went on to have several roles. But you're right, in the midst of all those roles there's a lot of “Oh you’re just not the fit.” And here's the thing, when I talk about resiliency and passion, it never once deterred me, to say I should just give up. Never even thought about it, I've travelled all the way to the west coast, I live on the east coast, for a good lead and come back home without it, in New York several times per week, and, but it never occurred to me to say I'm not good enough. Or this is the wrong thing because this is my passion. This is my passion. So every time I don't get a role, I don't take it personally, I think to be resilient you've got to learn that right? It's not about you, it could be about 1000 other things that you're not aware of, especially in acting. So I said, Okay, let me look at that audition. Let me see, now that I know I didn't get it, let me look at the script, let me see how I would have done things differently. Let me see who they cast and what it is that they do and I didn't do. So I take all that as a learning opportunity. But never once have I said to myself in all these years, yes, I'm just not gonna do it anymore. I'm gonna do it until it doesn't exist, or I don't exist.
Yeah, it definitely is a very good lesson that when you've tapped into your why, your passion, then quitting doesn't become an option. It's just because you're doing what you love to do. And, you know, there's that old adage, do what you love, and the money will come. What's your view on that?
Oh goodness gracious do I have a story about that! I was in the 12th grade sitting in my 12th, senior year seminar and they had a guest speaker there and he said to us, he wanted us to write down the thing that we liked the most in life, something of that nature, on a piece of paper. And I did, I wrote acting on my piece of paper, and you turn it over and he did his whole seminar lecture, and it was about careers. And he said, turn your paper back over - that is what you should do for a living. He said, If you don't make a dime doing that, that will bring purpose to your life, you will have said you have lived a life worth living. Well I was convinced that was it! I was gonna do that. But I had a sensible mom and I didn't pursue it for many, many years.
But talking about resiliency, too, and getting knocked down a lot, I think when you put that with your passion, you'll find a way to meet all the practical needs of your life and still pursue, and that's what I did. I found a way to meet all the practical needs to send my children to college and all that stuff and still pursue.
Yeah, Dr. Dravon, when you're coaching people, you're a life coach amongst many other things, wonderful things you do, when you're coaching people, do you ever find that people don't know their passion? They're just numb, they’re just tuned out?
And I hate to say this, but in my limited exposure to the world, I've coached a lot of people, I find that it’s mostly women that I coach who tell me that ‘I have no idea what I'm passionate about, I cannot remember what I'm passionate about’. And to that I say, great, great, we're going to do a whole session, many, many sessions on self awareness. Because when you tell me that you don't know what you're passionate about, what I hear is that you're not very self aware. Also, you hear people say ‘I'm not good at anything’. Again, mostly my female clients will say that more so than my male clients, I'm just not good at anything. I'm a wife, I'm a mother. I say what? They’re two of the toughest jobs in the world, so we do a lot of sessions on self awareness because that's totally okay not to know what it is you're passionate about. I won't say it's totally okay to believe you're not good at anything, but that's an opportunity to discover more about you. And we take that seriously and make a lot of fun out of it because life should be fun, you should be enjoying this journey, that's my belief.
Yes. Why do you think it is that women have a harder time with that than men?
Well, in my humble opinion, there are many, many reasons but I think especially if they've raised children and been married, it's because they've spent so much of their journey giving and very little of their journey is with their eyes pointed outward, because we were taking care of a home or taking care of little people who are depending on us for everything. And depending on their situation, they're reserving very little time for themselves. So they’ve disconnected, they become this giving machine because society tells us, I remember this old phrase when I was a child that says, ‘Give ‘till it hurts!’. And many women have subscribed to that, give till they totally forget who they are and we do a wonderful job of giving, I wouldn't take that away from us. But we do an even better job, when we allow those people who are watching and receiving that giving, watch us take care of ourselves, and spend that time getting to know ourselves because we are evolving, probably the same woman in the same dreams that you had at 20, they probably have evolved by the time you get to your 40s and your 50s, but you haven't paid enough attention to yourself and that's okay. It's never too late to start, but I do find that to be one of the reasons and we're taught that it's selfish, it's just selfish to concentrate on ourselves. And I think it is one of the most loving things we could do for our family and for the world at large is to really get to know who we are.
Love that.
Great words. So Dr. Dravon, you've written a book, Freedom is your Birthright. Tell us a bit about that, and why freedom is important to you? What does it even look like?
Well in the book, I start off by telling people that probably I'm not the first thing people would think of when they think of freedom, I'm a woman and I'm an African American in America, right? But freedom is a choice and it comes with sacrifice, it means that you must first decide that you will sacrifice certain maybe popular views. The view, we're talking about entrepreneurship, the view that quitting is okay, or the view that maybe certain people shouldn't do certain things. You're free to believe and think anything that you want to believe and think, that means you have to sacrifice following sometimes the party line, right? You have to say I choose this. It comes with sacrifice. So when I wrote that book, I actually wasn't starting off to write a book. It was never my intention to write a book but that's sometimes when the most fabulous things happen. I tell people I was in what I call my “trifecta of pain.” I had just lost my job and my 20 year marriage was ending and I got diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. So all this happened in the same month. So I was actually in my kitchen trying to prepare a meal for my children and I was so weak I couldn't stand up that well so I kept lying on the floor and as I was lying on the floor, this one particular time just to cool down and just rest in between stirring the pot if you can get a visual on that - as I was lying on the floor this thought occurred to me: Are you unhappy? No. I'm disappointed. But I'm not unhappy. And I thought, even further than that while I'm lying on the floor, ‘I'm even a little bit encouraged’. That was strange! Where was that coming from? Right. I lost my job. I had no job, my 20 year marriage was ending, and I got diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. I was like, “What are you encouraged about?” This caused me to start doing some self exploration, more digging deep and I thought it has to do with this concept that I have, that everything that happens in my life, everything has come for one reason, and that is to bow down and serve me, as I consciously create the life of my dreams, my next level of greatness. So I thought, well these three things have to be doing that too. I believe that. I believe that. So from there I thought, well, I want to start, I want to be able to help somebody who may be going through this, hopefully nobody else is going through this, but I know somebody is. And I want to be able to help them to reframe the way they think about everything.There's that phrase ‘As a man thinketh’, right. ‘There goes his life’. And I thought I want to reframe the way you think about everything. So I started off writing this book, and I got to go back just a little bit more. I had this foundation that I was working on, this process that I was coaching people on Everyday Peace, where I defined peace as, wholeness, completeness, nothing missing, nothing broken, totality. So if you take a piece of a puzzle, and it happens to be a storm cloud, and you throw it away, the puzzle is incomplete. We need the whole, we need all of the pieces to make this beautiful puzzle complete. And I thought, well this is a piece of my puzzle, right? They don't feel great but I need these things to go wherever I'm going, and to help whoever I'm going to help. So that's how that book was birthed is me believing those things and thinking, Well, why am I not unhappy? I can't say I'm totally happy but why am I not unhappy and why do I feel encouraged? And I want to help people discover that part of themselves.
You're left us speechless, I think that's beautiful! That's amazing! Ohhh..
It sounds like a work of divinity. You almost channelled that from yourself to yourself, if that's possible.
Yeah. Exactly. I've never heard it said that way. But yeah, that's really what it probably was like that. I have used this book, I keep it on my nightstand, I read it, I give it to people and people buy it and I coach from and I say you know, this is really what we can do with every challenge that has ever shown up in your life.
Yeah, Freedom is your Birthright is the name of the book for people who are interested in getting a copy and we'll make sure it's available in the show notes.
Wow. Yeah.
Vicki and I have never been this speechless before.
I'm just soaking it up. I'm absolutely just bathing in this. This feeling that you've created with every.. with your attitude, your view on life, the way you walk through life, it just.. I just want to be in this pond at the moment, just chilling in this pond, it feels great.
And I don't mean to imply either, people say oh, no one's ever said it to me, but just in case someone's ever listening and thinking, oh she's got a perfect life that she's making perfect decisions. Oh, far from that. I make what would look like, to the trained eye, the wrong decision many, many times in a day and I just go ahead and forgive myself and I put that in my Everyday Peace journal. Oh, that's part of my puzzle, I forgive myself, I ask for forgiveness frequently, and I keep moving forward.
It sounds like you're not that adverse to risk. It sounds like you're willing to take risks where perhaps, maybe others hesitate. What is your feeling on risk? What's your attitude towards it?
Well that's interesting because I tell people all the time, I got a doctorate degree based out of fear. I used fear to motivate me, because I graduated from pharmacy school, I had been practising for a number of years and when I went to pharmacy school way back when, getting a doctorate degree wasn't that necessary. In fact I didn't know anybody who had a doctorate degree in pharmacy. And then one day I met a young lady and she had a really cool job and I said, Oh, how can I get a job like that? And she said, Well do you have a doctorate degree in pharmacy? I was like, no, and she said well you could never get a job like this! And I thought to myself, well if that is true, I've feared that I may not be marketable in the near future, and I may not be able to get a job. And I thought, well that will never do. So that fear, remember how I told you that I use everything that shows up, so that fear caused me to go back and I said let me get a doctorate degree because I want to be employable, right. And so many people would have thought that was a risk because here I was, already well into my career and was actually running a department and I thought, well it may not last forever and I better be marketable. So I took that risk that I returned to school. Maybe I've never thought of myself as being risk averse, but probably I am. But I am prepared as much as I can be prepared, right? I do my homework to figure out what it is that I need to survive in a particular industry and I try to make sure that I'm staying as close to cutting edge for lack of a better term right now, as I possibly can. But maybe I am risk averse, I haven’t found myself that way. But I'm also one who believes that, I use everything, if I'm afraid of something, and when she made that comment to me that day in a very casual, offhanded way, it made me feel really fearful. I thought she was much younger and I thought, is this what's happening in the industry? Could I be out of work? And I used that fear to say, Okay, what is the best thing that you could do right now? What makes sense for you to do right now? And I thought, I wasn't even pregnant then, I think I got pregnant in that course of time. But yeah, I thought, well, I better go and get that degree if I plan to be marketable in this profession. So I used that fear to drive me forward.
And is it true you went on to own pharmacies yourself?
Yeah. And I did that without a doctorate degree. So yes, I used to own, I bought one drugstore in my 20s. And I was very much a community advocate, or for the people, I guess, everything that I do is for the hope that it will help at least one person. And so I was very attached to being a community pharmacist, I wanted to be there, helping people. So my young girl dream was that while I was practising pharmacy, I’d own a chain of pharmacies in communities. So to own a chain you needed five, so at two I said to myself, ‘Well, I have some other dreams too!’ And so I went on to sell those drugstores to major chains and went on to pursue other aspects. I wanted to be a consultant, I opened a consulting firm, still in the realm of pharmacy, but it was always about following my passion and finding out as I evolved as a woman, and as a professional, seeing where I could do the most good for myself and for other people. But yeah, I used to own drugstores and I used to tell people there's nothing more humbling than that having the fate of other people at your hand, this is the big league, and people are making their household decisions based on my decisions. And my decision not to quit and to go on, and when I did decide to sell, to make sure that I was going further and making sure that they were secure, and that the companies would take them on. So big decisions but I enjoyed that part of my journey as a pharmacist.
How does a 20 year old own or purchase a pharmacy?
I look back on that in my 20s right? I look back on that. And I gotta attribute it to my mom who had this, ‘If you can have this imagination’, and I'm sure there are people, my kids, my daughter's 23, my son is 20. And I think to myself, ‘who told this 20 something year old woman that she could walk in here and get a bank loan and do this and do that?’ Nobody, I'm sure somebody told me that I couldn't but again I was building that world inside of me first. So for me to do that, it seemed quite ordinary.
Feels like you might have done it already. I think this whole imagination thing, I'm really really connecting with this because it seems like the path to do the things that might otherwise take courage, but because it feels like you've already done it, the courage required is less. Would that be true?
My goodness. I love the way you're framing things, saying things. So there is, if your audience is interested in Imagination, there's a great author called Neville Goddard, who in his book is called ‘Imagination’, I read that much later in my life. But I was doing these things based on my mom teaching this stuff, right? Because imagining, imagination, and this is the part that I got later in life I talked about passion, is connected to emotion, right? Even when we worry, if you're an entrepreneur and you're worried that you won't meet payroll, well that's you imagining that you won't meet it. So you're creating an imagination and you're creating emotion around that imagination. If you change that imagination, you create emotion and feeling around. Gosh! How excited am I, I met payroll, trust me, it works. I did this for many, many years, owning businesses where people were depending upon me to make payroll and low and behold, I’d make it. Now I'm still doing the work, but I'm using my imagination to support my work instead of using my imagination to distract me, or to cause me to worry. And then my creativity isn't there, my energy goes down when I worry, my positivity goes down when I worry, if we know there's anything that an entrepreneur needs, is to be positive about the journey that you are taking. Because there's so many naysayers, if you turn on the television and you watch the news, there's so many naysayers, but you've really got to be your own news report. You've got to forecast that future. You have to do that for yourself. And you do that through that imagination. It works wonders and that book by Neville Goddard, called Imagination is a great resource for that.
Thank you.
You've got some great quotes there, that is just impressive and amazing. What advice do you wish, other than your mom who seems to be incredible with the advice, but what other advice do you wish someone had given you, maybe early in your journey to maybe sidestep some of the pitfalls you found yourself in along the way? Was there any piece of advice that you'd love to give to somebody else to help them?
I think the advice that I can give to myself now, because I didn't learn it till late in life, is that to pace yourself. This is a marathon, it is not a sprint. And if you're spending more time, and I just mean in motion, you are really slowing yourself down. It may look as though you don't have time to sit for an hour, but that's sitting for an hour, my goodness will save you eight hours worth toiled in the wrong direction. That I didn't learn till late in life and no one taught me that, I was really taught quite the opposite, which was to remain in perpetual motion, which really, I think I hear my bio read sometimes and I think to myself, who is this person who has done those things? But I realise that I probably could have done a lot more and been a lot further, had I taken those breaks frequently, daily, to schedule them, put them on your calendar, just that ‘me time’ to sit, not to be busy, not to be in conversation, not to be learning. Because I will tell you what I have discovered since I've been doing this practice is that a lot of that learning, I already have that, I'm just constantly going and I'm not tapped in. So that's the one thing I wish I had gotten that advice earlier, I constantly have to remind myself of that and I constantly work with my clients to tell them that, I know it doesn't seem like you've made progress, I get that. But you'll make even less progress if we don't build in this downtime daily.
Speaking of ___,
You ask it! We’ve got the same question.
I'm sure we do. So speaking of that and the time and the ‘me time’, we do love to talk and ask entrepreneurs what they do for themselves. So a lot of them have interesting morning routines. We've heard all kinds of stuff. Cold showers, which I'm a fan of, to meditating, journaling, exercising all these great things. We're actually reading a book in our book club called.. Vicki?
The Miracle Morning, by Hal Elrod.
Yeah, it just went out of my head at that moment, the Miracle Morning by Hal Elrod, and it is all about creating that sacred morning ritual. So tell us, do you have any morning rituals you do?
I do, I do have a morning ritual and I'm glad that you asked me about it. It's called my Act of Gratitude card. So let me see if I have one here, I don't, but usually I have it right near me, it's probably in my bag over there.
So every morning before my feet hit the floor I reach over to my nightstand and I grab an index card and a writing utensil. And on one side of that card, I write down three things that I am grateful for that happened yesterday - it already happened in the past - and then I flip the card over and I write down three things that I'm grateful for that will happen today. And there is, I'm very intentional about it because my mind, not just my mind everybody's mind, likes two very useless positions, the past and the future when all of your power is in the present moment. But our mind likes to go to the past, it likes to dwell in the future and so what it does, it usually creates either a little bit of depression or ‘the good old days are gone’, or look how hard it was - and anxiety - I don't know what's gonna happen, I'm so worried. So in order to prevent that anxious energy, if my mind goes to the past I redirect it. I say,’Oh you want to think about the past do you?’, well here are these three things in the past that you may think about. And so I control that narrative and if it wants to go to the future and start worrying, I say, ‘Oh, no, no, no, these are the three things that we're thinking about in the future’. And that helps me to control that narrative, it stabilises my mood so I stay in my creative space, and gently pushes me back to the present moment where all of my power to create the life that I want exists. So that's how I start my day and if time permits, I’s like to tell you how I end my day.
Yeah.
Please.
I end my day, and I work with all my clients, as a superhero always. I don't care what happened, I don't care how many mistakes, so called mistakes I made, I end my day as a superhero, which means I retell myself the story of the day. And probably the thing that worried me the most. So like, I can't think of anything right now, but if something worried me the most, like maybe I was passed over in a meeting, I had a great idea and they just sort of blew it off in the meeting, that part of my day would worry me when I lie down, most people it would. Our mind looks for the things that went wrong but I purposely bring that to memory and I retell myself the story or the meaning behind that story, however I need to reframe it so I look like the superhero. ‘Oh, wasn't it so gracious of you to hold on to that idea, you let the other person speak, look at you, you're a wonderful woman, you're so patient, you're so kind, you're so giving. I retell myself and I affirm who I am so when I process it in my mind as I'm drifting off to sleep, about how you got passed over, and it didn't work you know, I say ’oh but you're so gracious and you're so kind. Look at that.’ So ending my day as a superhero helps me to be when I sleep, more subconsciously creative instead of subconsciously worried. That's how I begin and how I end.
That sounds so perfect and something I am going to consider adopting for sure. I love that thank you so much for sharing. You are a superhero and all you resilient entrepreneurs out there are superheroes too, let's always remember that, let's not forget it. Let's reframe the challenges. Let's work on mindset and let's just keep being resilient and keep going on. Thank you so much. We really, really appreciate your time today. This is an incredible conversation. We hope that everyone who hears it grows and learns and builds and becomes even more resilient as they go on their day. Thank you so much.
You're welcome.Thank you for having me.
