Welcome to Resilient Entrepreneurs, the podcast where we talk with entrepreneurs and business people from all walks of life and from around the world, in the hope that something you hear will leave your business a little richer. Deevo is the visionary founder of Fusion Creative. He's an extraordinary entrepreneur and holistic branding specialist, content creator and master photographer and after a thriving corporate career of about 15 years, Deevo set out to rewrite the rules of branding. Okay, we're curious. We'll touch on social media strategies as well as building an authentic brand. So let's get started. Welcome. Deevo.
Thank you, Vicki. Appreciate it. I always wonder when you read the intros for a podcast guest you do in the intro, if you would say the same thing after you had the guest on the show? It'd be kind of a fun piece, this is how we introduced you - and then at the end you as the host would have to reintroduce and it could be as candid and honest as you wanted, like he’s not a magician at all, he doesn't know anything. Kind of a fun way to do it. Right? Yeah.
I think you've set us up for a challenge. We might just try that at the end with you here.
Yeah, no. I kind of like it's like on the spot that this is real or not real. Right?
It’d be fun to hear you introduce us too.
Yeah,I like that. That’s actually really cool, I like that.
Okay, let’s do it.
Well, you know, I'm all about branding and strategy of course, as we do here at Two Four One, we are a marketing agency. I'm so excited to talk more about that as we get on with the conversation, but I always like to start out with understanding a little bit about you and who you are and where you came from. Because you know, our childhood experiences definitely shape who we become in the future. So tell us a little bit about you Deevo. What was growing up like? Where did you grow up? And was entrepreneurship part of that or not?
That could be a dangerous time portal. How deep are we going down this rabbit hole? I'll keep it relatively.
Give us all the childhood traumas, every last one of them. Because we know you're a storyteller.
Yeah, I'll keep it as benign as I can, but I'm not known to do benign. So I'm one of 12. I have 11 brothers and sisters so to start that off, you can kind of see where I could go with that. I have nine sisters and two brothers, I’m the middle child so there's some psychology associated with that apparently, were the coolest, best looking - all those good things. So I don't know, I think to work backwards. So entrepreneurialism has sort of always been in my blood. I just didn't know it was entrepreneurialism, I just thought it was my way of making money because my parents didn't give us money and we were pretty poor. Well, actually, we weren't poor, sometimes it's kind of weird, I don't really understand it. I always thought maybe my dad was on the run, because we moved to a bunch of different places. But we had money sometimes, and then we had no money. Like sometimes I'd be eating saltine crackers with mustard on the top and then next time, it'd be like, we're driving this huge van living in a Mountain House. I never really knew what he was actually doing but I would say 80% of my childhood seemed pretty poor. We never really had a lot. And so I always had my own jobs, which I grew up in Colorado and we lived in the snowy part of Colorado. So I had my own snow business where I'd go every winter starting from basically October through March and shovelling snow off people's yards. So I had that. And then in the springtime I would transition them into a lawn mowing company. So yeah, I've always had my own little entrepreneurial spirit. Really I don't know, I'll stop there. Did you want to dive in anything specific?
Yeah, I want to know whether you ever found out what your dad did?
No, no. Well, he had a couple of businesses. He had a wine importing business. And so he would import fine wines from all over the world. So he was always travelling and bringing back wine. And then he would resell that to restaurants, wine connoisseurs, back in the time wine wasn't as big as it is today, but he was sort of at the forefront of that. And we worked in his business, which is kind of interesting. So not only did, we were homeschooled, at least I was homeschooled up until, let's see, we went into school in middle school, so I wouldn't really call it homeschool. We called it homeschool but it was basically my dad's child labour, that's basically what we were, so unloading - I kid you not - so imagine me and my two brothers, these big giant tractor trailers full of wine, pallets and pallets and pallets. Those are 30, 40 feet deep stacked to the ceiling, and we were his labour. And so until I was old enough to carry a box of wine, which probably weighs 20,15, 20 pounds, I would imagine, I was the tape boy. So I'd have all these tapes up my arm, because I'm really nimble and athletic, I would have to climb up around and move boxes around so they could unload them. And then at some point during the day he would stop us and we'd have to go do reading lessons and comprehension lessons and that was our homeschool. Everything was just centred around reading and comprehending and writing. So I don't know how old you all are but remember the McGuffey Readers, are you familiar with the McGuffey Readers?
I don’t think so.
It's like an old, old, old ass original English manuscript that were designed to teach people how to read, like back in the 1800s or something and so we learned to read and comprehend literature, like high level literature when I was four years old, I'm reading, I'm reading like Shakespeare at four and five years old. So in between unloading tractor trailers full of wine. So yeah, there's a few stories to tell.
It's incredible and clearly your dad was obviously an entrepreneur, too.
Yeah, he always was, I don't actually ever remember him doing anything other than entrepreneurial.
And it makes so much sense when you can look back, and you say it was a roller coaster, times when you felt very poor and times when you seemed to have a lot, some moving around. I think that's a very typical entrepreneurial story. And very real for a lot of entrepreneurs is that roller coaster ride and then very typical of a kid who's like, ‘Yeah, I think I don't like that, I'm gonna make some money of my own’. And then you give yourself a little safety and security net. So it all makes so much sense when you explain it.
You just diagnosed the first 10 years for me of my entrepreneurial journey of my scarcity around making money and not having money. So thank you. I'm not even lying down on a sofa. But yeah, like, it is pretty interesting. When you say that, and I'm aware of that now. But in retrospect, the whole idea of entrepreneurialism is to not be on that roller coaster like how do you finally get to a level where I hate to say coast, but you're not working in your business or for your business, You're running your business, right? So. And I think the first 10 years, or maybe the first five to seven years we'll say, it was like that, just ups and downs and highs and lows and it's really, that's the whole point, figure out how do you move beyond that level. And most of that is, we sabotage ourselves, I think the psychology behind it. Spot on, you should go into therapy, Laura.
I missed my calling clearly. Ah, well, I am fascinated. Vicki, and I are very passionate about working with entrepreneurs. And it's just a story that we hear over and over again, whenever we talk to anybody. And it absolutely just makes sense. But it's one of those things, you can't connect the dots until you look backwards, you can't connect them going forward. So it makes a lot of sense. Tell us about where you are now and your journey and have you evened out that roller coaster a little bit?
Yeah, well, I've actually started and sold a few other businesses. So I have figured out the recipe, the recipe is always changing, but I have sort of figured out the recipe on how to have success. I'm currently in the middle of my fourth and fifth business right now. I own Fusion Creative, which is a storytelling branding agency, brand amplification, brand strategy and then I also still own a photography studio that's been here in Charlotte, where I am in North Carolina full time since 2010. So I'm actually operating two businesses right now. I'm actually trying to morph the two into one, but handing off the photography business to somebody else that I've been grooming for a while now.
So what is the secret? You said you figured out the recipe, what's the secret ingredient?
Well I don't know if it's a secret. I think it's probably different for every business and every business owner. But for me it was the whole idea of self sabotage and getting in your own way, and coming to terms with the psychology around scarcity, for starters, but then really honing in on what your product is and the value that you offer. And being able to tell that story to an audience that resonates with it, as opposed to trying to be all things for everybody. And I know this sort of sounds cliche, but it's factually true. Early in my business I was trying to sell photography, pet photography, boudoir photography, wedding photography, all these different things and I would talk about that on my website, or I would talk about that with people. And there was no, it's sort of like a double edged sword, there was no clarity for my audience, but there was no clarity for me exactly who I really wanted to be and step into my power. Each of my businesses, it’s kind of funny looking back, it's been an iterative journey of self development and learning through that process. And so the secret for me if there is a secret is that, you learn from the failures that didn't get you where you wanted to be, be self aware about those, understand what those errors were, and learn from them and then grow from that. So I guess there's a lot of different ways you could pin it, but in a nutshell, I would say that's what it is.
Yeah, sage advice Deevo. And did you have a mentor to help you on that journey to see that light?
No, all self taught, all self mistaked, and just learning from it. I do have a mentor now, I have a coach. So in the last several years of my business, which also I guess is the secret, this podcasting, being a podcaster has been a big piece for me as well because it's enabled me to connect with a huge audience of people that I would never have met before, which is why I launched it in the first place, and then I do have a coach now, I also have a therapist that I meet - that therapy term gets connotations of negativity - it's just somebody for me that instead of bothering my partner with everything, someone where I can unload, digest, process and get candid raw advice back. And so for me, I highly recommend if you have the way to do that, find someone who if for no other reason you can just connect with somebody who isn't your mom that can slap you across the face if you're not, you're not toeing the line of your own accountability right.
Yeah, I think that is such a key ingredient to success is getting that outside viewpoint into your life and into your business so that you can see things in a different way. Because often as entrepreneurs we get really caught up in the day to day, the minutiae of stuff that needs to be done and dealt with but you don't look at the big picture. And a coach or therapist can help you see the big picture and can help you connect those dots, like I mentioned earlier, and brings everything together for you and then you can start leaping forward, rather than taking those baby steps that can feel really frustrating in the beginning.
Sure, and it's part of the participle of having some modicum of success. Because really early on, especially when I was just doing this myself, that was the problem, I was just doing everything myself and because I'm relatively efficient, and I was blessed with some talents, I was sort of like I can do it all. I'm literally like Atlas carrying everything and the Swiss Army knife of customer service and accounting and billing and bookkeeping and taking hours editing and doing videos, and what happens is I was sort of splitting up all of my power and not being able to give what my best talents were towards something that I really was powerful at doing. But because I was so bogged down in it, it's necessary for a while, but as soon as I started making a little bit of resources and being able to find people and handing off some of that stuff to them so that I could really focus on the big prize. I think that was another turning point for me, like realising, Dude, you are pretty good at what you do, but you can't do everything all of the time, you're literally gonna burn yourself out. So that was another change that I made.
Did you burn out getting there?
I can't really answer that, I have a high tolerance for pain. And I'm sort of a glutton for… I actually like being in the trenches working, I actually enjoy sitting down and working, it’s something that I've always been passionate about, and maybe that's because I'm one of 12 kids, we literally had to do. One of the things I'm struggling with right now with my wife and our kids is, how do we teach them resiliency and accountability and responsibility and creativity and being able to take all the things that they're going to have to take into the next phase of their life when we're not there picking up everything after them, and you have kids so you understand that right Laura? It's the same thing as a business owner is, how do you find people who can support those goals so that you don't have to micromanage them and empower them to do their thing so that you can focus on the things that you're really good at. So that's been a big lesson for me to this, all this process.
One of the things you said Deevo about focus, so you've mentioned that you're running two businesses. You've also talked about the importance of having a focus as a singular focus, or am I interpreting that? So if I'm not, then how do you balance two businesses with a single focus?
Well, that's a great question. So a singular focus would probably have to probably talk about this in terms of micro and macro. So I think it's okay to have multiple focal points within your business, because you have different areas that you're trying to grow and you have different pieces that you have to deal with, whether it's customer service, or branding, or trying to bring on new customers. So there's sort of the micro pieces of a business and so you'll have multiple focal points there. But for me I have an objective, financial objective, I have a number of clients objective, I have a very clear purpose on what it is that I want to give back to the community. And so for me it was a mind shift and this is from my coach to be honest with you, of changing my psychology around revenue-based only. I need to make this number of sales, need to bring in this number of clients, and need to make this amount of money. And those are great micro goals to have but for me, finding clarity on my purpose, my focal point is how can I solve someone else's problem in a unique capacity that nobody else can, so that they want to use me again and again and again. And so I don't know that I ever had that early in my business because I was trying to be everything to everybody. But then I realised the things that I'm really really good at are X, Y, and Z. And those are the things that really make me excited to come sit down to my computer or meet with people, whatever and I was like, those are my powers, those are my superpowers and so that's my macro, like I stepped into that space, does that make sense? I break it down.
It does, tell us what they are.
I think for me again, I sort of touched on that earlier, it's finding a problem that I can solve for people. And so one of the things that I realised really early on is that entrepreneurs have this really great idea, right? We're gonna change the world with a great idea and we're just gonna go out there and do it. And we're just gonna make a lot of money, and everyone's gonna love our product, and we're gonna be f***ing superheroes, right? And so people don't realise that, before they get to that point, they have to do all these things that we've been talking about, there's a foundation that has to be laid, there's branding that has to be established, so people know who you are and what you do. There's amplification of that so that you can find these audiences. We literally live in the craziest time right now. I can speak to 8 billion people on the planet right now in some way, shape, or form if we do our job right. You have 2000 listeners, 5000 listeners on your podcast that I would have never had the chance to speak to before, right? So I learned how to do these things. So now I show up on 100 podcasts a year because I get to borrow your audience for free. Thank you very much ladies. And that's part of my brand, I show up and I'm a nobody, but I get to speak to somebody else who thinks your show is really f***ing cool. Oh dude, they had this dude who came in and talked about this. And even if I just connected with one of those people, I connect with one person. And so through the compound of everything it just snowballs and I don't think a lot of business owners, especially early in their career, understand that, they're ‘I'm just gonna go out there, I'm just gonna do all these things’. And then they never spent the time up front to figure out how to do all those things. And so I have, and I'm really good at sharing that message with people. So that's one of my superpowers, I teach entrepreneurs how to find their power and how to tell that message. So that's one piece that I found that I'm really, really good at is helping other people figure their sh*t out. That make sense?
Makes so much sense. Let's talk a little bit about the strategy of branding, because I think people understand your brand is your logo, your business cards, your colour palette, all these pieces that go on your website and your collateral, materials, etc. But the strategy of branding is what happens before you create all those things. But people often skip that step. They go right to hiring a designer and getting a logo done, or jumping on Canva and creating something themselves and then publishing a bunch of stuff. But it gets really jumbled up and messy as the time goes on, versus starting with strategy. So let's talk a little bit about what is brand strategy and why it's important to start there when you're starting with the idea, right? So you're an entrepreneur, you've got this great idea, you're gonna build this widget, or the service or whatever it is, why do we need to start with strategy first?
Well it is ,all those things are I struggle with those words. It is all those things that you just said. It is your logo, it is your fonts, it is your typeface, it is your colours, it is all those things but those are just like your team uniform that you're putting on, right? So it's really, really important to have a strategy session at the outset of what you're trying to build so that you know what you're trying to build so that you have some place to get to that gives you your own North Star. But it also lets other people know what your North Star is, and so people don't connect with, they're not gonna connect with my photography for example, there are literally 6 million photographers and I think most of them are here in my city. It's like everyone and their mom went out and bought digital cameras, ‘Like I'm a photographer’, Okay, that's great, fantastic. There are people that will pay peanuts for your not so good service. So how do I figure out who I am and what I do best so that I don't have to charge peanuts, and I can share that message with people so they connect with that - what's my emotional connectivity to my buyer? And so your brand strategy helps you figure out what is that emotional connectivity to my buyer, so that they understand who I am and what I do very, very clearly, and are willing to open up their wallet and pay me to provide that. And so once you have that clear, who you are, what you do, why you do it, how you're going to do it, what problem do you solve and how am I going to share that, then you've developed what's called your brand message. And your brand message is literally everything, it’s how you answer your phone, it’s what your website looks like, it's what your logo looks like, it's your colours, it's your design, it's what do I believe in so that I can find other people who also believe in my sh*t, and we can all form a little group and just go make money and share resources together. That's what your brand message does, to me anyway.
Yes. I love that. That is so nice and clear and helps people to get it. So when you can start with a brand strategist with someone in the sphere who understands that and can start. How do you work with clients? Like say for example, I'm coming to you, I've got this new business, I'm about to start, maybe I've got a few little clients, but I've not really launched yet. Like where do you like to start with your clients? How do you start the ball rolling with that?
Well, you're gonna lay down on my sofa, and we're gonna start, I'm gonna start interviewing. I need to understand for me to be able to help you, I have to understand who you are, I have to understand why you're in your business. Why did you start this? Why do you have this? What is this idea? Where did it come from? Like, what is it you hope to change in the world with this idea of yours? And through that process it's like double blade introspection, I'm asking questions, we're coming to epiphanies, they're having light bulbs turn on, and then we're having dialogue around it. And then we're figuring out like, okay, these are the things that work, these are the things we like, these are the things we love, these are things that are really just sort of nice to have, these are the things that may be beneficial but they're not really necessary right now. And so through that process, which is, it's a rigorous two days, usually four to six hours of just me and the client or clients, because some of them bring multiple stakeholders into the business meetings, which is highly recommended. If you're just an entrepreneur that's great but if you have a team of people that are also going to be buying into this new philosophy, if you have a team of people that are also responsible for making decisions, they should be involved in the decision making process, everybody needs to be here and we all need to sing Kumbaya around the campfire and figure out what it is we're going to do to change the world. So everything for me starts with this brand discovery audit, if you will. I don't like the term audit, because I just got audited before. I have PTSD around the word audit so I gotta figure out a new word. I need some brand help there, Laura. But we go through this discovery process, we just figure out everything that they are like, what is this message you want other people to perceive? And there's a fun question I was asked, if you were in a room and both of you just gave a really cool keynote, and Vicki just did a mic drop, and everyone's like, holy sh*t. And then you left, yeah exactly, and then you left that room, what do you want those people to say about you, when those doors are closed outside of earshot? Like, what's that message you want them to say about you, because that's what they're going to be saying every single time they interact with you, they're going to read it on a Google review, they're gonna put it on social media, they're going to share it with their friends, oh, I know these cool people, man they have this podcast, you've got to go on their shows, or I know these two people there that kind of suck, right? So you have to make sure that that message that you're leaving with the people that interact with you is not only consistent, it's durable, it can withstand outside forces and it's transparent. Also people don't like fake sh*t, be real. So how can we be real with what we're providing and not look like we're always trying to sell stuff to you. So we start with that, and we build that. And then once we've built that, we have this platform that we can now scale and start building other things. And then once you start building and scaling other things, holy sh*t, I latch onto whole new customers because I'm building all these other things and I'm very clear what I want to do. So I'm going right there. And they're gonna come right here. So it's just, it's a symbiotic relationship.
Yeah. And it's that foundation, because you're talking about the build, that comes when you have a solid foundation.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there’s metaphors all over the planet, like, learn to walk before you can run, learn to read before you can write, you could just keep going on and on. How do you start with something, and don't expect overnight success? Like it's very rare, I don't even know how many people who've done that, there's a few. You have one genius idea. But like even Amazon took 15 years to fully cultivate and marinate. Have some patience, man, have some patience.
It takes about 20 years to become an overnight success, isn't it?
Yeah, I don't know, is that a real number? It's not overnight. We know that right.
It’s never overnight. It's all about the journey. It's about the journey that you take to get there. And often people just see the success at the end, because that's a bit that gets highlighted, that is when you are doing keynotes, that is when you are having an article in Forbes, that is when you are at the peak and you seem like an overnight success but it's just because people don't see all those layers of foundation you have been building over the years to grow to where you are.
Well, yeah, thanks to social media people think that your sh*t doesn't stink. So it's like we're doing it, everything's great we're rockin and rollin' while behind the scenes we're building and building, we're in the same outfit for two weeks in a row. But if you want to fast track that process, it is not an overnight success. If you want to fast track that it's crazy. The very thing that you want, you're refusing to do, and the very thing that you're refusing to do is preventing you from getting what you want. So it's like, dude, take a chill pill, take a step back, get your sh*t lined up properly, and then you'll start to fast track that success. And it's not just your business. It's like, where's your mindset? How are you emotionally? How are you with relationships? How do you interact with the world? Like if you're going to be a forward facing service based industry and people are gonna have to interact with you, then don't be a d*ck. Like find someone else to do it and figure out how do you get your personal sh*t lined up, and then we'll build the business that matches that. I had a client and he was like, everybody he interacted with, he sort of pissed off but he didn't understand why he was pissing them off. And I was like, Dude, you're kind of a little bit gruff around the edges. Like, you need to take some diplomacy through this situation sometimes and I know you have great intentions, but like most people don't respond well to that. So you have to figure out a way to sort of soft that. So you need a feminine touch or something, come on have some balance, right?
Balance, balance, balance is the key word. All the time, figuring out balance, I don't believe there is such a thing as balance, I think everything is just going to be weighed up and down. And sometimes family is up here and sometimes work is up here, and sometimes social life is and it all has to kind of see-saw a little bit here and there. That's my mindset thing. Now, we talked about mindset and mindset is so key in business, and super important in entrepreneurship to get your mindset sorted out. And you've mentioned great things like therapists, a coach, and helped tremendously. What about books, podcasts, anything like that, that you have felt has changed your life or have been important to you or anything you recommend.
It's different for everybody I think. This is just me. So just because it works for me doesn't mean that it's going to work for you or for you or anyone else, I think you have to find what's going to add value to your life. And if you come at it from the perspective, so something that I learned many years ago, and actually it was at the culmination of my divorce, I had to take a really long, hard look at myself, because I realised that the trajectory that I thought I was on was invalid, null and void and I was sort of sitting in this abyss of nothing. And I don't really know where I'm supposed to go at this point. And it wasn't because my divorce necessarily crushed me. It was a low vibrational period of my life, for sure. But it was sort of like I was on this trajectory of, and I was still working in the corporate world, I was on this trajectory of I have to just build and crush and dominate and make money and have a big house and a nice car and just f**k sh*t up all the time. And I didn't realise that's not how the world works. And so it was through that process, it was through a crazy bunch of serendipitous events that occurred, it's really weird to me, if you're really in tune with the vibrations of things, and you start to, there's a whole different realm that operates our universe and everything we do, sorry if I'm getting woo woo but I truly believe it exists. And before that, I was just pragmatically tow the line, get sh*t done, we're talking about mindset I'm going somewhere, I have a tendency to ramble but I always try to bring it back, my divorce was like, I had to figure out why that happened and then I'm very analytical. So I had to understand why did this happen? It couldn't just have been her fault. I'm pretty cool but there has to be something that I played in this, because balance like everything. So I agree with you said Laura, there is no such thing as balance, but there's shifting scales and ultimately you can't be all the way up here and ever be high performing or all the way down here and expect that you're going to have results. So we're constantly in this shift to try to figure out how do we even the scales so that we're not too radical one way or the other. So I had to come to terms with that, that I had a role in that divorce. And it was through that process where I was led down rabbit hole after rabbit hole of self discovery and introspection and therapy and all these different things where people were like, Dude, you've got some thorns that you need to trim. And once I figured that out, and narcissistically came to terms with it, like Dude, I'm not perfect, I do have some real problems here, that's when I really started to see changes in my life and it was getting my mind right, it doesn't have to be therapy - helpful, it doesn't have to be a business coach - highly helpful, but it's really being able to sit with yourself and be okay with that, not always doing something all the time. We live in a society where we're like, oh, we all have to go go go go win win win win it's like… simmer down.
Oh my goodness Deevo, I'm finding myself laughing. Not laughing at you, just laughing with you. You talk about vibration and energy. Where are you getting your energy from mate? What is this? Green juice? Meditation? What’s going on?
All the above. I try to eat healthy, I surround myself with good people. I come on cool podcasts where there's good conversations. Just let's break that dichotomy down for a second. Early in my podcasting venture I went cheap. I didn't hire the right press agency. I didn't hire the right people that could promote me the right way and so I was getting put on shows like, no offence to Nigerians but I couldn't understand a word they were saying, they're recording it in the village where they were, what are we even talking about? So for me, finding peace around this and surrounding myself with the right type of people. Putting myself, I realised that my resource, my time, my energy is a resource and is a commodity that I'm trading. And every time I interact with somebody I'm either having a positive interaction or not so positive interaction. I actively seek out positive engagements now with people. I actively seek out positive clients that I know that I will bend over backwards for them, because they're part of the process and the solution. I had a couple of clients early in my business where I hired them because it was all this money. And I'm like, Oh my God, I made it, I just literally signed a half million deal with this client, and then she started asking me to promote all these things on social media that I philosophically do not agree with. And I can't get behind that. And I'm not asking you to judge me by my opinions, I'm just saying it's my business and my life, so if I'm going to support this and exchange my resources for that, I'm going to be empowered by it. And I need to be behind you, because if I'm behind you, I'm really **** good at what I do. And if I believe in you and you believe in me, dude, we can go to the stars. I shifted my mindset around that, and so once I sorted that out and started realising I'm actually hiring clients, just as they are hiring me. And so there's that piece of it that just really makes me feel good because I get to be around good energy. I exercise, I eat healthy, I meditate, well, not very well. I do yoga with my partner, I'm just trying to live a life. I'm very exploratory, I want to just try sh*t. I don't want to be like, I don't want to hear these metaphorical stories man when I'm 90, where I’m saying I wish I’d done this. No, I'm just gonna try sh*t. I'm just gonna go do sh*t. And what happens is when you do that stuff, and you just subconsciously do it and enjoy it, and not like, plan it out and have a reason to do it. I'm not doing yoga, because I expect to be like this Adonis of yoga and put my head behind my ears and be able to look at me on social media, I'm doing it because it teaches me discipline, it teaches me resilience, it teaches me to shut the **** up for 60 minutes and do nothing. There's so many different reasons and so I'm starting to understand that the more I just enjoy myself and try to really be in the moment, the more things just are easier and they talk about this being in the flow. I never knew what flow is, I was a college football player so I just understand the high level of performance. There were games where I would come back in the locker room, and I was like, I don't even remember anything that just happened. And then I would read the clipping the next day, or I'd get the film the next day at practice and I was like, Dude, I'm pretty badass. And I just realised that during those moments I was in a flow, and when you're in a flow you just do, you just be, you just create and you just connect, so if you can figure out how to do that, then you're halfway there, in my opinion.
It was a really important message. The question we often ask on this podcast is what is your morning routine? I didn't want to ask you that question. I wanted to ask you that question of where is this energy coming from? It's an important message. It's very much about being the person you want to be. So my follow up question to that Deevo is, What is it that you want to do that you haven't done yet?
Are we talking literally or metaphorically, or like just what spiritually? What do you mean?
Whichever way you want to interpret it? I mean, you're living life fully. You're doing everything you wanted.
I just signed up for deep underwater scuba lessons I'm doing that now. Travel all over the world, I make it a point to go to multiple countries every year. If I was the President of the world I would require everyone to travel for one year. Live in a country of your non native-speaking for one year, you cannot come home until you have fully immersed in their culture so you can learn that you're not the centre of the universe and I'm talking to all Americans, you're not the centre of the universe. Go experience Pakistan for one year and tell me if you don't think they have cool sh*t going on, or go live in Mexico for one year or go live someplace else that isn't the American dream, because the American dream is not what you think it is and you're not the centre of the universe. So I would say that. I’d like to get my pilot licence just so I can travel freely and not be restricted by aeroplanes and all that stuff. My business coach, he is a former Buddhist monk and he lived in Nepal for 10 years and he keeps promising me that he's going to take me to Nepal and do a one month of adventure. So I'm calling you out Nick. I hold you to this. It has to happen in 2024.
That's amazing. Oh my god, this to me is the dream, what you're describing is absolutely a dream, you created a lifestyle business that works for you and your family, that gives you the freedom to do the things you want to do to even have ideas like, I'm gonna be a scuba diving licence, I want to get it. So many people can't even dream those dreams because they're stuck in the rat race, the corporate world, the nine to five that struggle. For me, that's what all entrepreneurs, well, maybe not all entrepreneurs, what I aspire to as well is to have more and more and more of that, where I can do those things and have those dreams and travel for me is a big one. Travel for me is a big one. I absolutely agree. Having kids and as they're getting older, there's this need to help them see the world because you realise, I think you get a very clear vision through them of how narrow their world is when they haven't travelled yet, right? Because that's all they know, that's all they see. How do we take them out there into the world? I love what you just said, that is incredible. So what for you is the best part about being an entrepreneur?
I get the opportunity to create something with somebody else that enables them to become better because I was there to help them along the way and seeing them step into their power. And I first discovered this through my photography. I've been taking photos since I was 12 years old and I'm nothing special, I'm not a master. I am a master photographer by credentials, but I'm not this crazy good photographer, other people think I'm good, but I don't. I'm not trying to be humble, I'm just a good storyteller and I'm really good at connecting with people. And so I noticed early on, I would plan out my photoshoots like, we're gonna go here, we're gonna do this here, or here. And I was, literally would write stuff down, like where I wanted to take them and so I realised in that process that I really wasn't with the client, I was following my own agenda of what I wanted to accomplish, tactically speaking and it was good, I didn't suck. But I would always come home and be, Man, I had all this really cool. I didn't do this, I didn't do that. And I swear to God, I would literally call the client back up and I'd be like, I would really like to meet you on Wednesday, is there a way because there's something I didn't get a chance to do? Can you just meet me there and I would show up at the photoshoot with them. I didn't have my list, I didn't have any plans, I just remembered that I saw this really cool thing or I remembered this really cool space and I was like, I'm just gonna play in that sandbox for a few minutes. And what I found out what was happening is when I did that, and I wasn't working from this contrived idea of what I was supposed to create I was able to telepathically connect with the person I was photographing. It's like, it sounds weird but I just made this mental connection with them and there was this emotional connection, this bond for just the two hours or three hours that were there and they would walk away on cloud nine. They were just, that was the coolest thing ever. And I was like, it was really *** cool, wasn't it? And then when they would see their photos, a lot of my clients will cry when they see their photos, especially women. I had men crying at me too and maybe this is my ego speaking but I really loved the idea that I was able to take something in this moment for them and create this moment for them and create some sort of a legacy around it. That sounds a bit vain but I wasn't empowered by my legacy, I was empowered by the fact that you just paid me money which is cool, to take some photos. But I was, I wasn't really taking photos, I was going into this time and space with them and just creating, and they were laughing and they would, I had couples that would basically start having sex on some of my photoshoots. I have had clients - I did a couples boudoir session once and they were so, it was so hot and then we ended up in this shower scene and I was like, Okay, I'm just gonna let y'all dippity dip out - I’ll see ya! I don’t tell that to be crass, it was just something that happened when I was working with clients unfettered and unproblematic, and just being there. And so I figured out that was the reason what I liked doing because I don't want to always take photos of people I want to do other things and so I just realised that for me my true power is connecting with people and helping them tell their story in a way that they would have never ever been able to do and truly, like I believe that. I’m not saying I'm the best brand strategist on the planet, but in my own unique way, Laura, Vicki, I will connect with you like nobody else will ever have the ability to be because they're not me, and they're not you and the way we share energies and the way we connect, like, it will never happen and so that's my gift is just focus on how I can be here right now with Laura and Vicki and tell their story and blow them up. That's my gift. So that's how I do it. I can't explain it, there's not really words that sort of go into it and people, you just have to experience it. That's all I can say, you just have to experience it.
Oh, I love it. So much of what you just said I love but especially when you're talking about you found your gift and your gift isn't being a photographer. Because often when kids grow up, what do we ask our kids? What do you want to be when you grow up? And then they got to pick a career, they got to pick a lawyer, doctor, but their gift, it might be in connecting people, their gift might be creating beautiful spaces, their gift might be in hosting, and networking and like you're telling storytelling, that's not a gift that you can say this is going to be your career. Because as a storyteller, you can do multiple careers, you could have gone into novel writing, you could have gone into many, many different aspects of that gift. So why don't we hone in more on what our gifts are, rather than take this path, go this way, go to university, I'm kind of like, I think maybe because I have a teenager, I'm thinking a lot differently about paths and where people should go. Working with lots of different entrepreneurs, and so many people have changed paths so often, but the gifts still remain, and the career I don't think matters as much as just seeking out what that gift is and then how do I maximise and do more of that because you're going to be so happy when you do because I can feel your happiness, I can feel your passion, I can feel everything that comes out of when you're talking about your gift. That's really special.
I love that. And I have a 17 year old who's in the college process right now filling out applications and like you just said, I was like, honey, I don't really think you have to go to college, I just want you to wrap your head around it. College may not be the best track for you, and I highly encourage you to experience it. Here's what I got from college, it was a cultural explosion for me from a vantage point that I had never had the ability to see or experience because I just never did anything when I was a kid, like I never even took a vacation when I was a kid, my first aeroplane trip was across the country to go play college football, which is what I thought I was doing and I didn't realise that what I was doing is to have my entire suit just opened up and exposed to things, people, friends, people from all over the world were at my college, I had friends from South Africa, I had friends from Africa, I had friends from Ireland and just being able to see all of that and be exposed to that, sorry I started going off on a tangent, but I was like, if you're gonna go to college, just know that it might not be your path. It's not your only path and you might get there for a year and realise that isn't your path. And not everybody is designed to be an entrepreneur just because it seems to be working for me. And by the way, just a disclaimer, I'm nowhere near where I want to be developmentally - every day for me it's like how do I figure out how to overcome this. I still have issues and this is not my perfect world, but I'm doing stuff. I feel like I'm on a trajectory right now, that is enabling me to unfold the things I still haven't figured out and I wasn't doing that in the first part of my life. I was just walking the line, my horse blinders on, I had no no idea that there was anything else out there for me. So you're spot on with what you just said.
I love it. I do love it and I do think it's important for people to understand, what used to be considered the only path, work hard in high school, get into good university, go get a degree in something, go start that career and then spend the next 40 years of your life saving for retirement and then maybe you can get on a cruise ship and go see some more? No, but I think that vision of life is gone now. I think people understand that is not what life should be, and there's a million different ways to figure out what you want to do, what's gonna make you happy and, and happiness is, I think happiness is sometimes the most important thing and sometimes not, sometimes it's the grind, sometimes it's the thing, but it's just about, I don't know, finding that passion. I think that's what takes people to the next level and you can be a lawyer, work for a law firm for 40 years and be passionate and love what you do and have the best career and then take a month every year and go travel the world and be happy as can be like that doesn't negate happiness, like entrepreneurship, like you said is not for everyone. I don't think everyone should be an entrepreneur. But I think everyone should find something that makes them passionate and something that gets them out of bed every morning excited to live life. That could be training to do marathons in your free time, and that could be the thing that makes you super excited.
Absolutely. Well said, and happiness means different things for different people. I think, for me, I don't even use the word happiness. I think as a society, we're too focused on everybody always having to be happy, therapy makes us happier, treats make us happier, going out and getting ice cream makes us happy, whatever it is. And for me, it's almost like you're masking what's really going on, and not sitting with the fact that sometimes *** is sh**y, and you just have to be sh***y for a bit. So, once you have that experience of things that aren't necessarily working out for you, I think it's really important to understand that it's critical to have that experience. Because how would we know? Otherwise, that's not what we'd like, that's not what we prefer. Whenever really bad things happen, they suck but I've come to this perspective of life.
I was engaged to be married with a woman for five years. True story. It's the first time I've told this okay, just for your information, no one even knows the story. I was engaged to be married to a woman so after my divorce, I had a bunch of, I love being in relationships. I've just always liked being in relationship. I just love being in it and I was in two relationships in high school and one relationship in college, I just love being in relationships. And so when my divorce ended I was like, Dude, what the hell now? What I thought I was on, this pathway, so then when I met somebody, and I was in a relationship with that person, and that ended after two years, I was like, dude, so then I was in another relationship anyway, you see where I'm going. So anyway, I finally met this woman, I was in this relationship for five and a half years, we were engaged to be married, and she is a lovely woman who has all the things going for her. She's like an ex-model, she's just this amazing woman but then that ended and I was like, What the hell is going on? Like how is my life on this trajectory? What can I possibly be doing wrong? But then I realised, and I don't even know if this was just like an overnight observation for me, I just realised that every single relationship I had been in, there were central takeaways that enabled me to see the things that I liked and didn't like in a relationship, my life, everything. And then every one that came after that presented something new that was in line with what I was looking for, but there were still a few things that I wasn't looking for and so each step was this journey of uncovering and discovering. And through that same process, I learned about myself and how I wasn't showing up in the relationship properly and how I could have done better in this direction or how I could have changed the way it was. And it's like your entrepreneurial journey. It's like every single thing we do is just a process of learning, and unlearning, and learning, and unlearning, and learning, and it just keeps going on. And as soon as I started to wrap my head around that, and realised that nothing that occurs to me - and so I met this new woman and people call me crazy we bought a house together and moved in, and we have this microwave family of three new kids. And it's crazy to me and there's all sorts of problems with it that are obviously but there's so much good about it. It's crazy to me that I am still in this place. And my point in saying all this is that every single time something bad happens to people, people are like, Oh, it's the worst thing ever. But it's not. It's like the best thing ever, as long as you don't sit on your ass and wallow in it. Like, dude, see what went wrong, why it went wrong, recognise how you didn't like whatever it was, and now figure out how to **** fix that, and then step into that. That's the metaphor for everything: our business, our relationships, our lives, like literally everything. How can we find what works for us, and doesn't work for us? And then go after that a little bit? That's everything to me.
Yeah, you're talking my language 100%. I love talking about relationships, just like you. I wasn’t always loving to be in a relationship, I was very happy on my own, however, I love the whole world of relationships and understanding how they work and getting to know how they work and digging into what makes that person tick, what makes me tick and what makes us work together well, and then the one key piece of relationship advice, since we're here Dear D eevo, and getting relationship advice on the Resilient Entrepreneurs podcast, let's just wrap it up and put a bow on it. The one piece of relationship advice I'll give to our listeners is, work out who your ideal partner is. It sounds a bit business-like, but get over it. Who's your ideal partner? What do you want to see in them? What kind of person do you want them to be? And then ask yourself, are you ready for that person? Because that person has an ideal partner too, and if you're not that person, that ain't gonna work.
I love that. May I add a piece of that for me? Your relationship with yourself is a relationship as well. It's probably the most important relationship you'll ever be in. So if you are not figuring out how to handle yourself, your shadows, your demons, whatever it is, if you're not aware of your role that you play in literally every interaction, every response, every choice, every predilection, every obstacle, if you're not aware of how you engage with that, and are not willing to grow if it doesn't work out for you, then you might as well just **** all relationships, because you're never gonna have one that's going to work for you until you figure out your own ****. That's just all there is to it. You can't expect me to be in this relationship that I'm in right now, and show up the way I should be showing up had I not experienced all those things where I realised it didn't work out for me. I didn't have the connection, or whatever it was, but most importantly, I didn't show up the way I could have shown up better, including my divorce. I was a horrible husband in retrospect, horrible. And all of those things, I've now realised they were just lessons for me to learn and unlearn. Learn and unlearn learning. All I've tried to really focus on me is like how that sounds vain. But like, Dude, this is all that you have is yourself. So how can you figure that out? So you can show up as the best version of yourself and you're not an asshole to people all the time.
That's how you're showing up as the best version of yourself. As much as how am I reacting to things? It's how do I want to present myself? How do I want to walk into the room? How do I want to take that next sales call if we're getting it back to business? How do I want to present in the world? Who am I? Who is my future self? Here I am right now. I'm here, this is it, we have total control over who we are, regardless of any circumstances we've been through. In fact, not just regardless of, but because of, like you said, all of the experiences have made us who we are today. It's a beautiful thing and to have that awareness is so key, in business and in personal life.
Yeah, and it never stops like it's an iterative process. So we have a brief amount of time while we're here on this planet to do something, so most of that something involves you figuring out your inner mechanics, your inner engineering and being able to work with that to the best degree possible so that your experiences are in alignment with what you're looking for.
And alignment with the way you want to impact the world.
Yeah, fantastic.
living
It comes down to values, being clear on your values and living in your values. That's another part of business, that's really important. We've said this before in our podcasts, but if entrepreneurship is not the best personal development journey in the world, then nothing is. Because you really have to work on yourself to get better and better at entrepreneurship and growing a business, building a business takes a lot of introspection, because like you said, if you turn up like an **** all the time, you're gonna lose clients. It's inevitable your business is not going to survive long term and we're in it long term - I don't know a lot of people that became an entrepreneur and then decided to go back to any other type of living.
I know one.
You do?
I know one. She said entrepreneurialism is not for me, I like being able to, I don't want to always be under the spotlight and always want to be under the fire and that's fine. She figured it out. I respect her more, because she figured it out and realised that this is not my superpower, my superpower lies in this, I'm gonna go back to that and I'm gonna do the best job I can possibly do. That's totally cool, man. Not everyone can be what everyone else. There's so many roles that you could play in your life and not everybody can do that role, so find what works for you. I love what you said about your values. I actually have my values laminated and they sit here on my desk, and I read them all the time, I just want to do I still feel that this is in my space? I learned this trick from my business coach. So I love this, and so I read my values. I have pictures that are associated with them and I look at them and I'm like, Is this still working for me? Is this where I feel? And this changes, so that's a really important point, you just made a lot. I really love that you touched on that.
When Vicki and I started Two Four One together and this business is only three years old, that's us working together. The first thing we did, the first thing we created was our values. That was literally the first thing we talked about on the first page on our website like it was just super important for us to be aligned in that way and I know that's the secret to our success.
And how do you handle between the two of you, this is another piece I was thinking is fantastic. How do you handle conflict? And that's really important in your relationship, especially if you're in a romantic relationship. Not everything is smooth sailing, We've been talking about this for an hour, like you're gonna have obstacles. So how does Laura and Vicki sit down and manage the conflict? And is there a copacetic solution? Or at least that you believe that you can find one without a bunch of bullsh*t and drama before you get to that point? And how does that work? That also should apply to who you hire and who you work with and who your partners are like. How can you envision handling conflict together, because it's really important and my last partner and I, we did not handle conflict well and what happened is it snowballed, and then it became what it becomes. It's like apathy, resentment, all the things it can go through the stages of relationships and why they fail or succeed and you don't ever want to be in a situation where you're going to have resentment or apathy, because apathy is the worst thing ever. Like you just don't give a **** about that person and I'm not saying that, that was for us. I'm just saying If you get to a point where you have apathy about anything, dude, it's time to sit down with Laura and have her lay down and talk about on your sofa how she can give you therapy. Because apathy is the worst thing ever, if you just don't give a s**t about anything, like for real you need to have a long hard work.
That’s when you hurt people, when you are apathetic, that's where you really can hurt somebody. Even if you don't want to, even in your heart, you might love them and care for them. You can really hurt somebody when you get to that stage. Yeah, handling conflict, I will be the first to admit I am not great at conflict, I avoid it as much as I possibly can. So I know that that is my thing I deal with a lot but I think having kids has made me a little bit better at it because I'm a bit more used to having to deal with conflict, and being in traumatic relationships and all of that. Absolutely, I have learned my lessons. But for Vicki and I, it's communication, we talk every day, when the stuff comes up, we do talk about it, Vicki is better than me at bringing stuff up and putting it on the table. So we do have to discuss it, but Vicki’s superpower is communication. 100%. So I'll give it to her for that, so she will put it up on the table before me, but I stand up and we talk about it and I think that's just really the key to keep the communication.
You’re self aware of your shortcomings around conflict so I wasn't self aware around my conflict resolution skills, I thought that I had the answers. And so the first step for me is, if you're aware of that, Laura, that’s fantastic, so now what are the qualities that you don't like, how you show up? And how can you address those - that would be your next therapy session with Vicki, since she's really good at communicating this to you. How can you show up with Vicki in this relationship so that if there is a conflict, you're still showing up with your most honest and kind, even though you're upset, but how can you still show up with your most honest, transparent and kind solution to the problem? My grandfather used to say, Dude, if you don't like something, that's fine, but don't complain about it unless you know how to fix it. If you can't fix it, don't open your mouth. And I was like, that makes a lot of sense actually. So how can you fix it? How can you fix it so that you don't have to keep having that same problem resurface.
I want Vicki to give her response.
I'm enjoying just sitting back and hearing about this conflict. Conflict management, I actually when you ask the question, I thought, interestingly after three years, we really haven't had a situation where there has been conflict. Now possibly that's because Laura likes to avoid it or it's possibly because I'm quite tuned in. We're both very tuned into each other in a very fascinating way. We're on the opposite sides of the planet but we usually know when one of us has distanced a little bit or something's not quite right, and we'll ask each other about it. And like you said, it's communication, so for me, I used to be an absolute avoidant of conflict as a kid, but definitely more so as an adult, I just like to get ahead of it, ask the questions, if something feels a bit off, touch base. I'm also very mindful, very aware of what my triggers are, and what makes me a bit aggro on things or impatient. And then I'll check in and go, Oh, that's just you talking to you again. So really, that has nothing to do with that person so we can let that pass. There's always a reason for it. This is why I love - I'm actually also a life coach and I just enjoy this whole aspect of human dynamics because we're, so we're so in control and there's so much available to us to live such a full life and that's why I find it fascinating to see you Deevo living fully. Being aware and having the energy that you do and just going for things and it's my dream for everyone on the planet to be able to do that.
Thank you for saying that, I have a lot of work to go. And we're not trained to do any of what you just said, or anything that we've talked about, we're not trained that way. Think about our lives. From day one we're put into a row and in our schools, we're sat down in a desk, we're told to look forward at a teacher, we're told to wear costumes or outfits or whatever it is, we're taught the same material, we move on to the next grade, same thing rinses and repeats itself. The next grade, we walk in lines between classes. All the nonsense, we're not taught to think critically to understand ourselves, we're taught to memorise stuff, I'm talking about the public school system and primarily, we're taught to memorise stuff, and then parrot it right back to standardised tests, where we have to fill in a bubble, and there's no aptitude or thought or critical thinking or creativity, it's like all those things are said, they're just thrown out the door and we're just taught to just do well, get up, get a good job, get on a good team that's gonna allow you to do all kinds of cool ****, and buy nice things and just consume, consume, consume, consume, consume, consume, or we're never taught all these other things that actually run the planet and run the universe.
And like, what's one crazy thing that I have really learned in the last few years, and I'm still struggling with it but you, me, all three of us, we're literally connected, and the entire planet is connected, and all the resources that we consume are connected to us, and everything, everything is connected, if you want to watch the coolest show ever, it's called Borealis, you'll find it on I think Amazon or Netflix, I forget. But it's about these scientists who spent 20 years living in the Borealis Forest up in Canada and they compiled all their data and research after 20 years of observation and test and study and like everything in the show is mind boggling. Like how the plants and the trees and the animals all work together and everything from fires starting to seeds growing, it's crazy to me. And so when I watched that show, which I'm on my 15th version of it now because every time I watch it, it's like reading the Bible, you just learn something new, you just keep picking up on the fact that every single thing we do is connected. And every time I have a response to something, I'm gonna affect you potentially, whether it's road rage or doing something kind, you're gonna have a different response to that person because they're connected to you intrinsically and literally in every single way, shape, or form. And you may not have an effect on them that day, but at some point, you're going to have an impact, like your show and bringing on these people that you talk to and interview and let them go down rabbit holes about weird stuff. Somebody's gonna listen to this, I hope maybe one person is gonna listen to it and say, that was the cool conversation between those three, I’d really like to learn a few things about this. And so then they open up their books, or they open up their mind because it's like, Dude, we are, you are making a change, you're making a difference and everything you do is making a difference. Even if it's tiny, teeny, tiny, you're still making a difference. So just find a way to make a difference.
I suspect that you see yourself as a bit of a disrupter. Am I correct?
I don't know. I don't really like labels. I like to do things that make people think and make people question and I just hate the whole idea of status quo, this is the way we've done it always. So this is all we're going to do it, Dude, there's 5000 million ways to do one thing. Maybe this way, the reason this isn't working for you is because you've just been doing it the same way all your life. If you want a different outcome then you're gonna have to try a different approach. So if that's called disruption, then sure sign me up for that list. I don't want people to think that they're stuck, I don't want people to think that there's not an option. I truly believe Captain Kirk, this shows my age, he had this thing he's the only Starship pilot that ever conquered the test called the Kobayashi Maru. You've heard about this Vicki, you just gave me the thumbs up. Look it up. He's the only Starship Captain in the Federation Fleet that was able, well there's this dude named Captain James T. Kirk, William Shatner, he is this improviser, he is this ladies man, he is all these things. He's the perfect model citizen of Captainship, but he's not any of those things. He cheats, well not cheat but he rewrites the rules to everything. He doesn't believe in the Kobayashi Maru, he doesn't believe in the no win situation, he believes that every single problem has a solution and I firmly believe that no matter what the problem, whether it's global, political, your personal relationships, your business sucking, the fact that you are getting fat because you're getting fat, there's a solution to that, you can figure it out. There's always a solution and it may not come right away, but maybe if you surround yourself with people that can give you an honest answer, they'll tell you that you're a fat piece of sh*t and you probably need to put that down and go to the gym. I had this friend and he used to play soccer with me and I see him and every time I see him, he's gained 25 pounds, and he wonders why his wife won't have sex with him anymore, why he can't play soccer anymore, why he can't even stand up out of the chair without groaning I'm like, dude, you've gained 150 pounds since I first met you man. Stop eating, stop working all the time, go to the gym, exercise, and maybe you'll start to change your life. And he's just like, I don't know, seems like so much work, I gotta get up at six in the morning. Like, dude, stop ***** complaining, just go do it. If you are getting the same results, it’s because you're doing the same thing, Change that. If I'm a disrupter, then there you go, I'll call myself that. Great, thank you. I'm honoured you said that.
Just do it.
Yes, exactly.
Do it, you can change your life, you can be anything you want to be, do anything you want to do, that’s it. Well, we have one last question for you because this has been an excitingly long podcast because we have had such a good conversation, but we have to ask before we go, what is your definition of resilience?
How can you along the way to doing the things that you're doing, learn from the mistakes that you're making that aren't working out for you, grow from them, and find a place of placid serenity that enables you to stop questioning yourself and looking over your shoulder, and just knowing that the decision you made was the best decision you could have made, given the set of circumstances that you had available to you at that time and they may not work for you tomorrow but they're working for you right now, so be okay with that. Be okay with that, but be flexible and nimble and reactive and aware and all the things that if this that’s now working for you, this serenity that’s here today, it's not going to be there tomorrow because everything changes, everything ends, just be self aware enough that you're willing to change if it's not working for you, and step in and continue to grow and step into that. And so if you can continue to be self aware that you are going to make mistakes, things are going to fail, people in your life are going to die, businesses might not succeed. I might not be successful tomorrow, like the economy is gonna crash pretty soon and we might be starting a World War III, I don’t know what's gonna happen but somehow or other I'm gonna find a way to survive and that might be selling things on the street, I don't know, but I'm gonna find a way to survive. Because I don't believe in the no win situation, I believe there's always a solution to everything. And if that makes me resilient, then that will be my definition of it.
That has summed up this whole conversation perfectly too, because that's exactly what I believe, you're spot on with that.
Thank you.
Thank you. No, thank you.
And we have an alternative ending, remember we're doing the intro again.
Go for it.
All right ladies and gentlemen welcome to Resilient Entrepreneurs, the podcast where you hear the most fascinating guests when you least expect it. Deevo is a super high energy entrepreneur, if I could find a way to bottle up his spirit I would, and I'd sell it and I'd be a bl***y millionaire. Close your ears to the more than occasional swear word, and prepare to have your entrepreneurial path rocked in a great, very possibly life changing way.
I love that, thank you.
It was amazing.
Do I get to give the two of you one or?
Come on. Let’s have it, let's have it.
So here's my perspective of this show, so I go into a lot of podcasts, you know this, I have a lot of experience with this. And I find that a lot of people just come on shows with a predetermined set of ideas that they want to accomplish during the show and you may have done that, because I do that. But you were willing to listen, you were willing to learn, you connected with me. You're two hosts who take the time to listen, most people don't listen, we have two ears, one mouth for a reason. You listen, you don't interject, you didn't interrupt, you were willing to open your mind and your eyes to someone else's perspective you'd never met before, and potentially learn something from it, or at least have a really good facade that you are and patiently allow me and this conversation to develop a life of its own, and you were nimble and you were flexible and you took that information, which shows high intelligence, and you were able to twist from the paradigm you originally started with to end up where you are. So if anybody listens to your show the takeaway that I would have them receive is your gift to listen, learn, adapt and move forward, and I think that would probably be how I would encapsulate the show in this time I've spent with you, and thank you for it. I appreciate you.
That's so cool. I'm so honoured and appreciate how beautiful your words are beautiful. Thank you, and just while we're peeling back the curtain a bit, we do have a list of questions that we actually send our guests to give them an idea of what we're going to ask them. Do you know how often I look at these questions? Zero!
Well, that's the best part is having a conversation. There's nothing like eavesdropping on a good conversation. So we hope that's how guests take this. We hope that's how listeners take this as eavesdropping on a really cool conversation and taking away a few key, really key insights that we had today for sure and then using that to grow and build and create beautiful lives of their own, because that's what we want for everybody and we really appreciate your time today. This has been the best conversation. Honestly, I could talk for another hour, we're gonna have to have you back on again and have another conversation.
We'll have you on my podcast, how about that?
Deal.
We're actually rebranding our whole podcast, we were ‘A little impolite’ but now it's now called ‘Unlearn Everything’. I'm stepping into my podcast power, which is I realised the show wasn't really doing what I thought I wanted it to do. It's really unlearning because I bring people on and have conversations just like this. We unlearn the dogma we've been taught, so maybe you could do that. That'd be fun. Also I meant to ask you about how did the two of you meet from across the world? You're where Laura? You're in Australia too?
I'm in Bermuda, I’m born and raised here and went to school at Jacksonville University. So fairly close, I've been to South Carolina a few times and Vicki and I met in Bermuda. We were working together on a project, her in communications and me in design, and we just had the best time, and we decided we wanted to do more of that. So how do we work together more? So we built Two Four One, which is our marketing agency that we've been growing through Covid and have been on an incredible journey there, teaching small business owners how to get online, how to get their social media up and running, how to do marketing and now we're just evolving, bigger and bigger as the years go on. And we started Resilient Entrepreneurs as a webinar series of a workshop with lots of cool guests and we had an amazing turnout, people were ready to be resilient after the pandemic, and we said, we want to do more of this, we want to reach out to more people globally, how do we talk to more interesting people like yourself, so we built Resilient Entrepreneurs a a podcast, it has been running just over a year now we're about to head into Season Four and it's incredible, amazing and it's the most fun.
It's fantastic and from across the world, it's just amazing to me, if you're open to it how many people you could connect with on a daily basis, and just who knows where that will go? So brilliant to both of you for being, see I was spot on, you're open minded and you're willing to learn and to grow.
That’s the purpose of the whole podcast is so that people like you and our guests can get in front of our audience so that people who ordinarily wouldn't have a conversation with you, now get to do that, and open their minds and open their hearts and think a little differently and see themselves and their business a little differently and like you said, there's that butterfly effect, one tiny little thing that might have been said today could actually rock their world.
Yeah, you're absolutely right. Well said, Am I allowed to do shameless plugs.
But please tell us about your workshop. It was the one thing I wanted to ask.
Before I do that, I just want to thank Rachel, Jennifer and Melissa because they're my press team and they got me on the show so without them, I would not be able to spend time with you. So thank you and I have a webinar coming up. It's going to be an eight part series, designed to take you from zero to 100 in building your business. It's designed for creatives and entrepreneurs, even small business owners, who are really looking to figure out how to properly share your message and do that pragmatically, sensibly, holistically because branding is a holistic context for us. It's not just having a logo, it’s not just having a good website, it's being able to have a good message and then finding a way to amplify that and that's a holistic process and they each feed off one another. So I have a webinar coming up on November 2, there'll be one every month thereafter. They're designed to build upon the last but they're independent as well. So that's fantastic, I would love you to join and you can find information on my website. Thank you for allowing me to do this FusionCreativebranding.com and that’s it. Thank you for allowing me to plug that.
So thanks Vicki and thanks Deevo. Honestly, one of my most favourite conversations a perfect way to start the week, and we hope everybody enjoys it as much as we did. So, thank you very much. Hope to see you again soon and all the best.
