Welcome to Resilient Entrepreneurs, the podcast where we speak with business owners and entrepreneurs from around the world, and from all walks of life, in the hopes that something you hear will leave your business a little richer. We’re your co-hosts, Vicki and Laura from Two Four One Branding, supporting entrepreneurs as they launch their business to market. It's our favourite thing to do, and we're good at it. Well, it's our favourite thing to do aside from chatting with our fascinating guests on this show. And if listening to the show is a highlight of your week, please subscribe on whichever platform you're listening or watching on right now, and you'll be notified of the next great episode.
Today, we're chatting with award-winning entrepreneur, Meg Gluth-Bohan, CEO and owner of TRIInternational Inc., a US-based chemical distributor, which, by the way, is one of the largest certified women-owned suppliers in North America. She's also the owner and CEO of a multinational corporation, ChemBlend of America, a chemical blending and tolling facility. We're going to chat with Meg about her journey. It's not all been smooth sailing of course, and why Meg believes that now is always the best time to take the next step forward. Meg, a very warm welcome to Resilient Entrepreneurs.
Thank you both for having me. I'm just delighted to be here.
Oh, thank you, we appreciate that. And we're super excited for this conversation, and we love talking to entrepreneurs like you, and we love talking about your journey because yours sounds like a really interesting one. But let's start back in the early days. Can you tell me, were you a bit of an entrepreneurial child? Has it always been in your blood?
It has, probably. In strange ways, I always think that the first moniker of being an entrepreneur is being somebody who is creative and creatively-inclined. And I was. Not in traditional ways, I wouldn't call myself an artist or anything like that but I always liked seeing how different creative ways could come together to solve problems and create solutions. And in fact, I found myself at times fixated on the need to, “there has to be a better way” was the mindset I had, perhaps even before I had those words, as a young person, I really was mindful of the fact that I felt like sometimes things could be done better. And I think that most entrepreneurs probably start when they really think about it, from that place. And in fact, it becomes the impetus for a lot of people's business.
Definitely problem solving, that has to be the number one driver of why entrepreneurs do what we do.
Absolutely.
So what problem did you solve first?
It's really interesting. I think that I look back at my life, and I look at my childhood. So I was raised in poverty, first of all. And like a lot of the people, frankly, around me, and I grew up in a small rural community in the middle of the country, and a lot of people had a lot of lack and a lot of need. And what ran parallel to that was also some of the things that we know go along with that: a lot of strife in households and a lot of difficulty. And in my case, that was certainly true, and a lot of just sad, and sometimes traumatic experiences. So I would say that, when you are in a place where you can't always have everything that is available to solve a problem, you do become a creature of ingenuity. And I would say that, even in the way that we played, maybe we couldn't afford the latest and greatest toys, or the latest and greatest gadgets or things that other people had but we were first of all, innovators of fun. And of, just the way that we recreated, my brother and I were really big at at finding our way to fun, and to creation, and to building things with what we had. And at the time, even a middle school kid, I would have told you that was super unfair and depressing. Now I look at that, and I think that one of my greatest skills as an entrepreneur is that I know how to do basically anything with very little. I very rarely find myself in the corner of a room and can't figure out how to get out, as a figure of speech.
Is that a mindset shift or, what is it that turns that around for you?
I think it is a mindset. I think it's also a “person-set”, “body-set.” You guys talk about resiliency and things like that. And having to find your way through a difficult situation or find a solution for a problem that you might not have all the resources to solve is inherently resilient, isn't it? And it is a mindset. But it's also a — it’s deeper than that for me, I feel like it is a critical component of the fabric of my being, of who I am. And I think this, because I'm very often confronted with people who can't do it. If it was only a mindset thing, I think we could train ourselves to be resilient or resourceful, or people who fundamentally just say, “I'm not going to give up, I will find a solution to this problem. I have to do it, it's going to happen, that is what's happening.” And I don't see that quality every place that I go. And so I think that if it was super easily developed by just reciting certain things in your mind, and through repetitive mantra, I think more people would probably do it. So I think there is something to be said in your mind, but I think there's also something to be said for utilising our experiences in life, even the difficult ones. To realise how they, even though in the moment they look terrible, but they have essentially equipped us with skills that we would not have been able to gather otherwise, and then to employ them and deploy them as resources, I think that's more than just a mindset.[a]
Yeah, I definitely agree. And loads of entrepreneurs that we talk to have very similar stories and often come from very similar backgrounds. It's sort of that grit that you get from the challenges that you face along the way, especially, I think, as a young person. The younger you are, the more you deal with, the more resilience you build at a young age, it becomes such a part of exactly who you are. And I think that's such an advantage for an entrepreneur. So if you're out there struggling, please know you can use it, it's a power! It empowers you later! And no matter how hard it is in the moment, it always comes back to give you something, whether a lesson, or, fail fast? There's a lot of people that are talking about failing fast. So what do you think about failure? Because all of us through our journey in entrepreneurship face a lot of failures. So what is your mindset around that?
I never like failure when it's happening, but I love it in the rearview mirror. And I'm probably not alone in that. And it's one thing to be going through a moment of failure, whether it's personal failure, business failure, relationship failure, all of that. When you're in that, it's kind of, “Hey, save me the platitudes about how this is going to serve me later because it's just, I'm not interested in hearing that.” And I certainly wasn't. I've been through some moments of epic failure, some of which were my fault, those are the worst — some of which were not, some of which were just the circumstances that life threw at me, I hated every moment of every single one of them, if I'm totally honest. But somebody told me once, I was at a really, really incredibly low point in my life, I was halfway through law school when my first wife was diagnosed with cancer. And her cancer ended up being terminal. And it was an awful ride, it was a terrible journey through her illness, and it was devastating when she died. And days after her death, somebody said to me, “Where there is ruin, there is always treasure.” And I can't tell you how pissed I was hearing that. “How insensitive, how terrible.” But now, I flash forward well over a decade later and I can tell you, every day I'm aware, more and more and more of the treasure that came out of that ruin. That's a failure. That moment is a failure, it's not my fault, there were a lot of things that I did in response to that and there were a lot of ways that I dealt with it, that are my fault. But it's the failure of our primary relationship and of my understanding of the fairness of the world. And it landed on me in such a way that could have left me, really probably justified in just laying in that failure and saying, “Alright, I'm done, there is no point in putting myself back out there again. There's no point in being vulnerable to love, to life, to the risk that being in the world has.” But I'm glad I didn't do that. And I'm glad that I've positioned myself to be a person that does look, now — not right in the moment, but now, for the treasure that did come from that ruin, because it was really good in so many ways. I know that sounds crazy but it toughened me and it softened me at the same time, in really special ways.
That’s so beautiful, Meg. And thank you for sharing that deeply personal story, we appreciate it. So just, I guess to follow on from that is, do you think people get stuck after failure? Let me ask you, why do you think people might get stuck after failure and not do what you did by going forward?
Well, I want to be really clear that initially, I got stuck. And if there's anybody who's listening right now that's either been stuck or is currently stuck, that's okay. I always say that where you are is just a perfect place, and you have to acknowledge the okayness of “stuck.” Sometimes “stuck” is part of the process. I dealt with that through alcohol addiction and other avoiding, coping mechanisms. I didn't write that book, okay. I'm not the first person to invent that for dealing with hard things. And so what that means for being stuck is that, in that failure, in that devastation, refusing to deal with something or dealing with it inappropriately is “stuck” but then when you come to the moment where you say, “I don't think I want to live like this anymore,” that moment is a miracle. But then it's a secondary failure, because then you realise that what you're cleaning up is, in large part, your fault, and this is what I mean. Some failures we have, we have no one to blame but ourselves. It would have been very easy for me to look at my life and say, “This happened to me, I had no choice, I'm gonna stay in this ‘stuck’ place.” And then to your question and your point Vicki, that feels easy and comforting sometimes, especially when we don't know our way out. I think that's why people get stuck most often, it’s that we don't know how to get out, and we don't know how to ask for help, and so it's a lot easier to stay stuck. Which is then, again, made more difficult when you do want to get out and you realise that part of getting out means that you have to acknowledge another set of failures that belong to you. And so, that's hard. I think people avoid that, and I think that's why they stay stuck. I don't judge that because I've been there. I know what that feels like to do that. But I will say that life is far more rewarding if you can move through that.[b] But it’s hard, it really is.
What was your point, your pivot point, for want of a better word?
I had a lot of pivot points. The first thing I always tell people is that I am a person, for better or for worse, that has a really keen sense of internal awareness. I began to realise that the woman that I was — what I was doing, how I was acting, because we are in a sense what we do, right? — that woman did not match who I knew I could be. And, if I can go deep here, who I actually was, even under the layers of action and things like that. That's a real pivot point. It doesn't mean that I did anything with it right away, and it doesn't mean that I responded to it well. But I had an awareness, I had that initial spark of: “This woman, in her current behaviour, in her current avoidance of life's trials, is not going to stay, she can't, I won't be satisfied with that. I feel unsettled not being who I could be.” And then from there, it's almost like the universe hears that, and then you get all of these opportunities to start to change, and that's what happened to me. I met somebody else several years after my first wife died, and she said to me, “I love you, but I'm not going to do this alcohol addiction with you.” And at first, I was really angry. And then I ended up in an AA meeting and I haven't had a drink since. You could say that was a pivot point, you could say that was the moment when I turned things around, and it definitely was a moment. But I think that initial moment was that moment of my internal knowing. As justified as I might be in everything that I'm doing and everything that I feel, this woman isn't who I really am meant to be, and that is the pivot moment for anybody's life.
It's almost like you have to hit the proverbial rock-bottom, but then you've got to find the steps back out. And it's not like you just leap back up to the top again. There are steps along the journey of getting back to who you know you are. Which is an amazing thing, just to have the awareness of — I think a lot of people don't have that awareness and that does keep them stuck. So kudos to you for that, and hopefully people listening will spend the time, I think, with yourself to learn who you are. That's amazing, thank you for sharing that, seriously, really, really appreciate it.
Before we move to the next part is, to add about forgiveness, and to be able to forgive yourself, I think is an important part of taking those steps out.
Yes, forgiveness and the rejection of your own personal shame. And I'm not sure that that work is ever totally done but you have to commit yourself to the continuous application of that discipline. It's key for your survival, and it's imperative for your success.
What else has been secrets to your success since?
I think my success is, so part of getting sober is getting honest. And first you do that because that's what's required to, just not be a person who's stuck in your addiction. And what I found is that over time, not right away, again this climb out, and then this journey to wholeness is a slow process. But I found that I really liked living honestly and I really liked being authentic, and even now, I'm sitting on a podcast with you, I could consider “Who will hear my deepest, darkest demons,” so to speak, right? Or I could just say, “Yeah, this is an integral part of who I am.” And in my being honest and my being authentic, somebody's going to hear this and will be helped by this, I know that, that's why I do this. And I think my success is driven a lot by my desire to just say, “I'm going to be authentic, I'm going to show up and do honest work and I'm going to do what needs to be done, and to just be really transparent in the process.” People need that in their lives to get out of dark places. People also need that in business. Every single one of us that runs a business, or owns a business, or is starting one, or even just a consumer — you want to deal with people that you can trust and you can't trust people that are constantly hiding behind a veneer of themselves, you just can't. And so we all smell that, we all feel that, and we avoid it. And so, I don't do that, and I think that's part of the reason that I'm successful. You might not like me, you might not agree with me, but you will know exactly who I am and where I'm coming from and I think that’s a key part of my success, it’s a foundational principle.[c]
Can you share with us a bit more about the two businesses that you own and run? And why the chemical field?
Yeah, I actually started at TRI as the company's first lawyer. I was an attorney before I did anything like this, and I used to advise businesses and loved everything about entrepreneurship, and again, the creativity behind that. So I came to this company, and that's a long story — I became its first lawyer, and I got here and about two years into that, it turned out I knew the business well and I was kind of good at running a business. So I got promoted from General Counsel to President, and then I was promoted from President to CEO. My predecessor who founded the business, was ready to retire and so I ended up buying the business from him, TRI. I later made an acquisition of CBA and I just closed another acquisition actually, a month ago. And so in January, I don't know when this podcast will air, but by the time it does probably, my company will have a new name, a new brand, and all three entities will be in under one. Because I believe that it's much easier to have everybody have the same identity and be playing for the same team, and so that's how we'll do it.
In sum, we supply the chemical and other raw materials for manufacturing across a variety of industries in the United States and other markets. These products are made all over the world and we bring them into the US, and then I want you to think of one gallon of paint, a lot of our customers make paint, there's multiple molecules that go into a gallon of paint and each one of those molecules have to be sourced from someplace and that's the job of my company. In addition, we also make some of those products at our plant in Chicago. And so companies will pay us to make their products for them, with their labels on them, and then take them back to them to take to market. And I find it fascinating. I love knowing how things are made. I see manufacturing for companies that make paints and other coatings: inks and dyes, cleaning solutions, laundry soap — and then even some of the most industrial applications, washers for big rig trucks, and I know how all of that is made and I love it, it's fascinating work.
Meg, is your business for predominantly women?
Yeah, I'm one of the only wholly woman-owned companies of my kind in my industry. This is what you would definitely call a male-dominated industry and most of the industries, or many of the industries we supply, are as well. That said, I find that I'm well-received and well-respected in the industry. I'm in leadership at many industry levels, and I think, well-respected and well-regarded by my male colleagues and female colleagues alike. I have a special place in my heart for female entrepreneurs and I spend extra time mentoring them and encouraging them, because I think there are some different challenges that present themselves, without any disrespect to my male colleagues. There's just a different world sometimes, for the women I encounter. But yeah, it is kind of neat, I think we might be one of the largest, if not the largest, woman-owned and woman-run chemical distributors in the United States.
Do you find yourself hiring women often?
I have a lot of women working here, and I have a lot of women in Executive Leadership. And I would say that, this is how that happens. I don't know what the resumes look like for a lot of the people who work here. And frankly, well over half the people who work here have worked here over 10 years, we have a lot of longevity, and we have a lot of loyalty. I tell people all the time, “I have the greatest team on earth,” and I mean that. But I'm not interested in where someone went to school, or if a woman, for example, has had to take five years off to stay at home with her children, I'm probably not going to, that won't be a mark against her for me. Because I'm looking for that thing in people that you can't teach. And I think a woman who's been at home running her household for five years probably knows a thing or two about organisation and getting things done and being full of grit and resilience, and so I tend to hire them. And so I ask questions in interviews like, “Tell me about your first job. How old were you when you started working? Did you have a paper route? Have you ever mowed lawns for money?” I want to know things about what makes people tick, and whether they have, again, that thing in them that you can't teach. I think a lot of women in any industry, and in business, find themselves shut out, because of breaks in resumes or maybe they didn't have the same educational opportunities, or life stuff. Here, I just generally am not focused on that. Again, I don't read most of the resumes of the people who ever sit in front of me. I just know, I gut that. And I find that when you do that, you find incredibly talented people and many of them at my organisation happen to be women, but I find that same talent in men too. I just think that I tend to get women in leadership probably because I'm not chasing the traditional things.
You said you also mentor female entrepreneurs especially. So what's a piece of advice you would give someone who was, say, just starting out on their entrepreneurial journey, but they're struggling, they’ve got their challenges, what advice would you give them?
I would say keep going. I always say that and I know it sounds trite. But the opportunities to quit, or be slowed down, or be discouraged in the entrepreneurial journey are daily, and multiple times a day. And if you don't have as an underlying posture within yourself this, “I'm going to keep going”, thrust engine your business will not be successful, full stop. You can do anything else you want to do, but if you can't keep yourself going in the midst of that and just commit every day to just keep going, then everything else that I could tell you to do will be worthless, it won't matter.
The second piece that I would say, the second piece of advice is that, I would be very cautious around the word “no”. If somebody tells you something's not possible, or they tell you “no,” or they tell you you can't or some derivative of the negative, I personally, am very cautious around that. “No” is one person's opinion usually. And if you know that, and you think, “Okay, this one lender won't give me that loan, that doesn't mean I'm not getting a loan, it means I'm not getting a loan from this person.” And having a good relationship with the no’s that are thrown at you is, I think, incredibly important. This ties back to that concept of doing a lot with very little. And having that grit and that resourcefulness, all of that requires having a strong relationship to the word “no.” There's always a way. And I think, really good entrepreneurs know that and they might not know what that way is, but they know there's a way. And I would encourage them to keep following that gut sense.
It makes me think about, as entrepreneurs, we’re just used to getting our own way.
Yes. It's kind of true.
It’s like a little kid that just says, “I'm gonna keep asking, I'm gonna keep going.”
Yes, persistence.
Persistence is not getting your own way, it’s make your own way. “You're telling me no, okay I'm gonna go do it anyway.” It's that type of attitude, I think that defines a lot of entrepreneurs. It's, “Oh, I'm gonna figure out a way, oh I can't get the loan? Okay, I can bootstrap it, or I'll figure it out.” Because there's something in you that knows this has to happen, and you have to make it happen. You have to believe in it, deep down and know that this is a solution that is just needed in the world, and nothing's gonna stop you if you truly believe that.
It’s true. I’m one of the Regional Honorees for Entrepreneur of the Year. And I'm at this award ceremony and I'm listening to the other winners talk, and I would say 75% of them started their business just bootstrapping it, and working long nights alone and trying to convince funders or lenders or investors that what they had was something legitimate. Well over half, maybe closer to 80-90% were in that situation and talked about it. You can't tell me that you have those kinds of people, 80 to 90% of people heard a lot of no’s, and they're standing here at what could be considered one of the high points of a career, you can't tell me that there isn't a relationship there: to the way that they view the word “no,” and the direct result of their success. So you're absolutely right, you have to have a grit that keeps you going past somebody's “no”.
I always like to think about all those people that said “no,” to people that make it, to mad success. Do they even realise? Are they kicking themselves? Because I feel like they should be.
Yes.
I hope they are. I hope so. Say “yes” more, please people, say “yes” lenders to those passionate entrepreneurs that have crazy ideas. Say “yes” because sometimes it's incredible, and sometimes it's a failure and that's okay too, because we just fail fast to get on to the next thing, right?
That's right.
Tell us, what's your greatest achievement? What's the thing you're most proud of so far in your career?
I have a lot of amazing achievements and I don't take any of them lightly or for granted. But my greatest achievement is my girls. I know that sounds like something you'd expect everybody to say or whatnot, but I really truly feel that. My journey to having a family and then the arrival of these two beautiful people into my life was hard-fought. And there are days when I wouldn't say that, they're both quite young and so some days are easier than others! But I will tell you this: it's something to make success for yourself, and it's something to create a world, a business world or whatever you're creating around you, where you’re really, really proud of it. It's another thing to create fulfilment, and the difference between success and fulfilment is often subtle, but my children give me fulfilment. They also remind me of legacy, that what I do will be so much bigger and so much longer-term than what I'm creating at work, and what I'm creating in my business. And so I feel that. I feel just honoured and delighted to be their mom and that's my greatest achievement. And I say that honestly too. Because I think you can do both things. I think it's really, really important for people to understand that - you can be so fulfilled and have an amazing role as a parent, and also have your children know that what delights you as a human being is also the creation and maintenance of your business. And you can do both things as long as you're intentional and really open and honest. My girls know that I do what I do at work, and I create, and I run my business because it makes me happy too. It's good for them to see that and to know.
Yeah, absolutely. They're lucky girls, because it is hard. It is very hard to be CEO of a business and you've got young girls too. I don't believe in the word “balance,” I don't believe there is such a thing but what's your thoughts on how you manage it all? Let's not say balance, how do you manage it all? As a mom and a CEO?
If I'm totally honest, the answer is “not always very well.” And I really want to be honest about that. I don't want to sit on your podcast and have a listener think that I've reached the pinnacle of balance, or whatever it is, sometimes I'm doing a crappy job. My goal, my intention, and what I think I do pretty well, a majority of the time, is that I work really hard to be where my feet are. I'm a daily meditator and so I have thoughts about presence and being where I am, and one of the things that I really strive to do as a person is to be exactly where I am when I'm there. So I try in talking to you, to just be with you. And I try in talking to them, to just be with them. Children can feel that. And if there's a parent listening to this podcast that's worried about that time-balance, because it isn't balanced, I have some quarters, everybody running a business knows that there's some quarters that are worse than others. I have some quarters where I'm home not very much at all. And then maybe we get this week-long family vacation and I can really just dwell in being with them. Or maybe I don't get that, and I only have a half hour to have breakfast with them but when I do, I sit in between them and I look at them when they talk and I'm present and fully present. And I think that presence is the thing to strive for, not balance. Because if you're striving for balance, you won't reach that and then you're just going to feel terrible about yourself all the time. But if you're striving for presence, you can do that most of the time. And that's what we want, that's what our children want. And when people are present with us, then we feel seen. And I think that's the impetus and the fostering of love, frankly between all of us.
Meg, that’s so profound, and it sounds simple. Yet I don't think anyone we have spoken to over the four seasons of this podcast have ever put that ‘balance is presence’. This is such an important concept, thank you for sharing that. I'm thinking there's gonna be a few light bulbs going off for listeners at the moment. It is a beautiful way to consider that and to go through the world.
If it was easy, you wouldn't have people like me spending time every single morning focusing on our breath, working on presence. But I do think that the pursuit of presence is far more likely to yield results than the pursuit of balance. That's my personal opinion, and so that's what I try to pursue. And it works. It works for me, I think it works for others too.
Can we switch gears a touch towards the business side of things? I understand this is all part of business, it's who you are in your business. I want to take it to the strategic level. You're about to rebrand three businesses into one which, of course, also means cultures of each business merging, so there's a whole change management thing going on there next year. I'm curious to hear from you… I see that as a type of launch, and what Laura and I do in our business is that we help small businesses, solopreneurs, launch their business or a new product to market. So I'd love to just have that conversation: what do you consider to be the most important target, or what do you really need to get right with this launch?
Yeah, so I have a business that has thirty years of reputation, and I have acquired two other businesses of similar duration. So whenever you're in that position, you have to get right, not losing what you already have. And in many ways, that is a more difficult imperative than starting out and thinking, “I'd be great if ten people heard this message correctly,” and being delighted when it's fifteen. But I have to get it right, that we have the preservation of core parts of our identity. Because you have to remember that I can't go backwards, I have to maintain exactly where I'm at. So I have that, I feel the pressure of that right now.
I have to be very, very intentional about making sure that all of this market and reputation and the existing work we've poured into this — thirty, sixty, ninety years combined, isn't lost in this. And so I'm very, very mindful of that.
This is another area though, where this is not my area of expertise. And so I've had to outsource this marketing, and then trust that other people know better than me, which is super hard to do as a CEO and as a Type A! I tell people that all the time, this is this hard for me, but it's an interesting part in my life, right, because here I am, I've got this business baby and I'm saying, “Please don't hurt anything, and help me take this to market.” That said, I'm confident in them, for reasons that we talked about earlier, that trust component, the authenticity component, I know who they are and I know that they know what I need, and they know me. But I think yeah, that's the biggest thing I have to watch in this particular launch.
And then the next thing I have to do is make sure that it's clean, all of the things that you want, when you're picking a new brand. It's going to become recognisable, it's going to adequately capture who we are and what we're about. And I think that it does, but I won't know for sure until it hits the market, which will happen on January 1. And that's sort of the moment of truth, right? You spend this year in this business, the preparation work for this has been a year of work. I've been excited about this. I'm like, “Yes, this is the right name, this is the right new name, this is the right new logo, this is the right colours, this is the right font.” Who knew you had to pick font? Not my wheelhouse, you did. And I'm like, “Okay, this is all right.” But ultimately on January 1, I'm going to be waiting to see what happens, because that'll be the ultimate test, right?
You got to test it in the market, testing it in the mind doesn't matter, testing it to your friends and family doesn't matter. They're not your customers, right?
Yes.
It's testing it in the market that's really important, and that's the scariest part, because by then it's all built. You can't rebuild the building after that, right? It's done. It's created, yeah. But the good news is most logos have nothing at all to do with what the business does, most names have nothing at all to do with what the business is — Starbucks does not sound anything like coffee, in fact it's from a book. So, that is not as important as your values, who you are, what you stand for. Because that in the end, I believe truly, is what keeps customers coming back, and when you’ve built a brand reputation, of course it's unnerving to change any of that, but you're still standing on your values. And I'm guessing the core values aren't changing. That's still the same, yeah.
Not at all. And in fact, I'm sort of a known quantity, people know what they're gonna get with me. I'm talking to you right now, I’m wearing a sweater and a pair of jeans and a pair of running shoes, I show up most places like that. I have a lot of customers that are very important people, and for the most part, they see me in a pair of jeans and running shoes and I'm gonna roll up my sleeves, and we're going to talk about what needs to happen. Some of them I meet in a suit. But it takes not very long for us to get to the crux of who we are and to have that conversation, and when people know who you are and what you are fundamentally about, they're going to know what your organisation is about. It's so important that every CEO or business owner understands that everything trickles down from who we are. And who we are can't be masked, people will figure it out eventually. So the values of your business better be the same as the values of you as a human being, because if they're not, that's going to fall apart, people can smell that all over the place. So will the values of this business change? Will the identity of this business change in that respect? No, not at all. Because I'm going to be the same. But it's going to look different and I think that's okay too.
Very exciting time for you, very exciting. Congratulations, you mentioned that it had taken a year in the making. So that's a long runway, obviously a very big project, so it needs that length of runway. Can you talk into a bit of the preparation, not so much the details, but the importance of having that strategy of lining up your ducks in a row, so to speak, so that when launch day comes, you're ready?
Yeah, my first advice is, to everybody listening, is to hire this out. Even if your business is marketing, it's good to have a different brain other than your own to do this kind of stuff. First thing I had to do was pick a new name for my business, and I started this process before I had either one of the acquisitions complete. One of them I knew was almost done and would be coming on board. But the second one, I didn't really know, I knew there was a possibility but it happened faster than I thought. So I knew that I had to pick a new name that was inclusive to what we were at the moment, and the fact that we would potentially be growing, and that we were growing. And so I hired a firm to help pick the name. That process took several months, I didn't know that, I didn't know how much research goes into that, I didn't know how much market intelligence, surveying customers, all of that, I had no idea — again, know what you know, know what you don't know, and when you don't know something you need to ask somebody who does, to do it well for you. Once we had a new name then I had to hire a firm that turned that into a logo, a marketing packet. Laura, you kind of joke about the font but again, it's part of the packet, and the colouring and I didn't know there were that many different kinds of green or yellow or, you know what I mean? And so it takes a while. And then they're creating a brand strategy, and then they're creating your logos and drafts of what ads might look like, so that's the process in that. I tell people to hire that out because that's not my highest and best use for my business. I need people who get paid to do that, because that's where their creative talent lies. And if I'm doing that, then what am I not doing for my business, right? I need to do what I'm good at, and be in my sweet spot and then I need to find people who help do that. And so that's the overall summary, they created the timelines for me, "This is what we're going to need from you next, and when we're going to need it." And I simply followed directions. And I'm better off for it, I think.
Yeah, how much did strategy play a role in all that preparation? How much time did you spend just strategising on what you're doing and who your target market is, and making sure everything's clear in your messaging, and that. Because I think that's the missing piece people don't get when they're starting new or rebranding or anything, they go immediately to, "Okay new logo”, you know, “I’m gonna need a business name and new logo", and they miss the piece about who their customer is, and their targets, and the strategy behind it. So did you spend a lot of time on that, too? I’m curious.
Tons, and in fact, that work was done prior to even picking a name. The firm that helped us create the name talked to a number of our customers, they gave anonymous opportunities for people to tell them who we were. They had to wrap their arms around the identity of who we were in the current moment, then they needed to come talk to me and all the members of my team about where we thought we were going. And there was a lot of work of just getting to know you before that could happen. Once they saw where I thought I was going, and what I thought the strategic vision — it's my job to set the strategic vision of the company - once I could say what that was, then you have to pick a name that captures that as well, while not also abandoning what used to be. And that's harder work than you think.
Really hard work, yeah.
Then when you get into all of the colours and all of that, I joke about the tediousness of that, but Laura, this is your guys' wheelhouse, that says something about your strategy too, that says something about where you're going and who you are. And that's why I'm saying too, that part of it, I didn't understand. That was the bulk of the conversation. The strategy, the identity, the messaging. The rest of it comes, once you have those things hammered down then you're like "Well, that's the obvious choice for the logo." Right?
Yeah!
But you have to nail that all down first.
Exactly! That is exactly it. And that's where it becomes easy, and that's when marketing becomes easy. Because once you've got the strategy, your messaging, you know who you're talking to, what you're going to say, then the rest of it, any designer can pick up on that, take that information and create your beautiful ads, and a beautiful logo, and every other piece of identity you could possibly want, the perfect font. Because it all has meaning, there's always a meaning behind all of it. But the general public doesn't understand those, and they don't need to, but the right target is going to connect immediately to it, because it's gonna have the feeling that they're gonna want associated with it. So whether it's warmth, friendliness, or serious business, whatever your emotions, your values, all that comes through, through the font choice, through the colours, so all of it. I'm getting way too excited about this conversation because this is so my wheelhouse, and what I get really excited and love to talk about all day long. Back to Resilient Entrepreneurs, back to that side of the show. So seeing as we’re Resilient Entrepreneurs, let's wrap this up with: how do you think people become resilient?
As I was saying earlier in the show, I think part of it is learned without intention, when we have experiences in our life and we, take children for example, I think good, bad, or indifferent, I think that don't have it always very easy, become resilient through, sort of, what I call “natural means,” right, they have to become resilient. That is ingrained in us as human beings, that are also animals on some level, right? We have this desire to survive and to thrive, I think that builds resilience. I do think too that outside of that, the thing that we can control and the thing that we can choose, is our response to given situations. And I see it as two parts: number one, to know exactly where you are, to know exactly what's happening, the truth about yourself, the truth about the situation — not the one you wish you could tell your friends, not the one that you will tell your mother, the truth about who you are when you go to bed at night. Knowing that, and standing really deeply in that. When you know that, then you can move in response to whatever challenges are happening, and your choice to move in any direction with intention is your resilience. It's not any more complicated than that, it doesn't mean you have to do it well. It's the fact that you wanted to do it in the first place. That is what makes you resilient.
You don't have to say, “I don't want to live like this anymore,” and then arrive at a perfect place, and if you get to the perfect place then you are resilient. If you say, “I don't like where I am, I know where I am, and I want something different,” your resilience is the fact that you decided to do something different. You get to fumble the ball along the way, but choosing to do better for yourself is your resilience, and I think you can develop that. But it requires a lot of self-honesty and the willingness to not do it perfectly initially, just the desire to do it.
That's great. Perfect summary of this entire conversation about authenticity, about really being honest, about living in your values and standing upon them as an entrepreneur and as a human being, right, as a mother, as all these different facets of our life because we are so much more than just what we do. And, just really appreciate this entire conversation for all of that and so much more. Thank you so much, you are inspiring many more to live their authentic, real, genuine, honest, brutally honest selves, because that's who we all need to show up as, and that's what keeps us resilient, that's what keeps us going, that’s what keeps all of us from not quitting: being real, being honest, and just telling our story. Because when you tell your story, you give permission for everybody else to as well, and that's what I love. So that's why we're so grateful for you sharing your deep, very deep, very serious stories, but also your light and your passion and your joy. We appreciate all of it. Thank you so much Meg, this was an amazing conversation.
Thank you for having me. It was really good to talk to you.
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