Anthony, welcome to the Resilient Entrepreneurs podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. We're looking forward to a conversation around podcasting with a podcasting expert. So this is gonna be a really good one, probably a different one for some of our listeners out there. But we're really looking forward to digging into a bit of how you got to become such an expert in this very specific niche, which we love so much.
But let's start back at the beginning because I always love to understand someone's childhood experiences because that's where the journey begins for most of us entrepreneurs out there. So tell us a little bit about your childhood entrepreneurial endeavours.
No, I appreciate it. And again, honestly, it's a pleasure to be on the show. I'm really looking forward to it. And honestly, in terms of my entrepreneurship journey, because I always think about that, like, where did this kind of urge this, you know, this nagging feeling of, look, I want to do more. I want to create, I want to be my own boss. All the stuff you dream about when you're a kid and then you become an entrepreneur and realise there's another side to it as well, right?
But I've been thinking about this for a little while now, like, when did it start kicking in? I think for me, you know, I was born in Nigeria. And then when I was around six, my mother, she was working in NHS, which is like the National Health Service here in the UK. Anyway, she decides to leave her hometown, go explore the UK to find a job, which she did. And she then brought her family over soon after. And I think when I was very young, maybe like again, around like six, seven, moving from Nigeria to the UK, I just saw a massive contrast in terms of wealth, in terms of like class, in terms of just things I can do. You know, I come from a place where you walk around outside, there's like gravel on the floor, you know, it's literally the roads are completely broken up and torn into pieces. So comparing that to the UK where everything's clean, nice, the buildings look amazing and stunning, roads are taken care of. It was just a massive shock to the system. But with that came the realisation of, crap, our family has no money. Like, my God, like, you know, this is all amazing. But I came to really quickly realize like money was a very tight thing for our family. And I think that's kind of probably where the sense of wanting to do more entrepreneurially probably came from.
It's hard to really tell sometimes, right? I've always felt like I've had it, but the pinpoint is probably that. And I remember when I was maybe around 11, 12, discovering, like, you know, always going out to the park playing. I remember meeting this young guy, he would always have really nice clothes or he would always buy like the craziest takeaways from the shop. Everyone would go in, I'd have like maybe a $1, $2 to spend and he would come in, he’s got $10, $20. I'm like, dude, you're 13 how are you, what are you doing? How are you making all this money?
And then he told me that he was a paperboy. And I was like a paperboy? What the hell is a paperboy? Firstly, is it legal? I was like, what the hell’s a paperboy? I've never heard of something like this before. And he goes on to explain that he essentially goes around to people's neighbourhoods and delivers papers and he gets paid for that. And that was kind of my first realisation of, actually you can start making money when you're younger doing different side hobbies. It wasn't my own business necessarily, but I say that's probably where this yearning of well, one the love of making money probably came from.
Soon afterwards, I became a paperboy myself and probably overstayed the experience to the ripe age of 18, which is absolutely insane. I wouldn't recommend it. But I think from there, becoming a paperboy, saving up a bit of money, buying my first bike, which is literally heaven on earth and really experiencing what it's like to work for your money, save a little bit and then invest into something else. And to me, that's always been a memory and an experience that I always treasured to this day. But those are probably some of the earlier experiences.
Then I went to university - me and my business partner went to university together. And around that time, I discovered this thing, it was like a little glitch in the system, quite literally in the system where you could essentially, and this is completely legal, it's going to sound super illegal and sketchy, very illegal and sketchy, but I promise it's legal. There's something known as Match Betting, where essentially you can guarantee profits from placing bets and gambling, quote unquote. And how it works is, it's so fascinating, how it will work essentially is you get sign up offers. So betting sites will give offers to people, new users to come onto their platform and place a bet. So, hey Laura, hey Vicki, if you guys come onto our website and you sign up and you bet $100, we will give you $100 as a free bonus. It's a credit that you have to spend in our store. So what we did, we had a little loophole, which is pretty neat. We would essentially, on my account, I'll create an account, sign up, I'll bet $100 on a horse race.
But of course, if I did that, I'm gambling 100 bucks. So what we would then do is on a different site, then place another bet for, you know, for Mikey to lose. So you have $100 for Mikey to win, $100 for Mikey to lose. It doesn't really matter what happens. If Mikey wins, one bet wins, other one loses. If Mikey loses, one bet win, other one loses. So we don't make any money, but we don't lose any money. But what happens now is we've now qualified for the 100 bucks of credit completely risk free. So now with this hundred bucks, now here's the magic. Here's how you turn the hundred bucks into real hundred bucks you can go out and spend. You repeat the exact same process this time on a different horse. I'm gonna bet that Samantha is gonna win the horse race for a hundred bucks. That's not my money. And then on the other one, I'm gonna bet that Samantha isn't gonna win.
Anthony, thank you for sharing that. And here's my big question for you, because you talked about the love of making money, which is a wonderful, exciting thing for an entrepreneur to have. Important, I would suggest. And I want to ask you about making money from the exchange of value versus making money for the sake of making money. Do you see any difference or do you have any thoughts or advice now that you've tried that making money for the sake of making money and you now run a very successful business offering real value to people, in exchange for money?
Absolutely, I love that. And yeah, you're totally right. I think to begin with a lot of the times for myself, growing up from where I came from, money was always tight, know? So for myself, it was always like, well, how do I make money just for my own purposes? Just straight up. That's me being honest. That's kind of how it all started. And you know, that little scheme that I mentioned, that was an antithesis of, know, dude, this is like a glitch in a system where I do no work, it doesn't feel real. And I just guarantee myself some money. And that was great. And last you know, it was fantastic was, you know, great whilst I was at university, etc. is very different to being an entrepreneur who then has to take things further.
If you're trying to build a company that’s six figures, seven figures, eight figures, potentially, it needs to be about you providing service to someone else. So I think it's actually a question like, yeah, there's absolutely different between how you make money, not just making money for yourself versus making money by the exchange of value and a service, but also how you make that money in exchange of service and value.
So to me, there is a major difference. Whereas now for us it is about serving podcasters, helping them grow and build their audience and monetize their podcasts. That's way more fulfilling than me just gambling some money and making a quick bucks.
Even now I always say to my entire team, what good is it if we make all this money, but we're not serving people? It feels so much better when you're getting paid to fulfill a service that lights up someone else's day. That makes them feel good. That helps them reach their goals. To help them absolutely crush it. It feels abundantly better, you know? And it also feels shit if you're doing shady stuff, I'm sure and you're making money from that as well.
It's just, again, the energy again, money's a type of energy, right? So the energies are completely off. So to answer your question Vicki, hell yeah, I see a difference between just making it for yourself and doing it for the exchange of value and serving other people.
Wow, that's so much good lessons in there for people to hear. I think a lot of entrepreneurs absolutely can relate to what you're saying and can say that they might have started just because, hey, I just need to make some extra money. You know, some people are in that nine to five job and they just need to start that side hustle so that they can pay their bills, you know, and they may not care about what it is as long as the money's coming in. But then there has to be sort of, like you said, that flip, that flip into, how do I get into something that feels good, that is service related? Because once you get into that space, it's like the energy flows so much differently. You are happy to market yourself so much more differently. And I think that's where real success starts laying because you start sharing yourself more, you're out there more. You probably didn't tell a whole lot of people you were doing that betting thing, but you want to tell everybody you're helping with the podcasting, right? Like there's a very different way that you market yourself and present yourself in the world.
But I'm curious, like how did podcasting land in your life? Like how did you get into that? Because I feel like podcasting is just now stepping into the mainstream. I think thanks a big part to the US election last year, I think it's come even higher into people's sort of understanding of what it is and sort of mainstream interest in it. So how did you first get into it and find it and figure out this is something you're interested in?
Yeah, great question. So interestingly enough, right, I was at a stage when this is again, when I was still around, what 18, 19, so still at university college. So I went to university and college because honestly, even though I knew I want to work for myself, I had pressure of the parents saying, Hey, go to uni, go to college, you know, you just have a backup and all this stuff. And I decided to go just to honestly buy myself some time to figure out what I wanted to do.
And my goal was always to build a business. By the time I leave university, I want to build a business. I want to have a business that's ready, that's set up, that I can serve others and get paid handsomely for it, you know, get paid well for it. That was always my goal. But I got to uni and to be honest, again, I was looking at different ways to make money. We tried a bloody affiliate scheme, which turns out to be potentially a pyramid scheme that my business partner and best friend's father had to tell us, hey, by the way, guys, this looks kind of sketchy. Probably don't do this on the internet. So look, if you're hearing this right now and you're getting into, and you guys have explored the internet, you see that again, there's a right way to make money and there's a wrong way to make money. Thankfully, we never explored that. So that was good.
So whilst I was maybe at the halfway point of university, I was feeling kind of lost because I was great, was making some money, but I knew it wasn't anywhere near my potential.
I was at university working and working my ass off and grinding every single day. Like literally I'll wake up at six. I would then go to uni for the entire day, back home and then work on some side project. And it got to a point where it just felt like I was at uni doing all this hard work for nothing, with no end goal.
You know, I was, I'm honestly just lost in terms of what I wanted to do. And I was then considering dropping out of university. I eventually discovered this thing known as publishing. So Kindle Direct Publishing. When COVID hit around this time when I was still in college, and it gave me some space to explore different things. And I remember one night I'm on my knees praying to God saying, God, dude, I need, I said these exact words, but I was like, God, dude, come on, like, I need your help. I know you see me go through this. I just feel super lost. I've got no idea what the hell I'm doing. I feel kind of embarrassed that like I still haven't figured my stuff out and I've got all my friends and I'm telling all these people I'm going to make it and do all these crazy things, but nothing's happening. And that same night, and Vicki you’ll like this - that same night, this is a trip, right? That same night, I discovered this thing called KD publishing. So KDP, which stands for Kindle Direct Publishing. And a YouTube video comes up, you know, one of those ads, one of those make money online ads that we all get. It's like, Hey, do you want to make money online? I was like, yeah.
Do you want to watch a webinar that tells you how to do this thing called Kindle Direct Publishing where you publish books on Amazon and make sales? I was like, yeah. And it's like 1am, imagine 1am, I'm under my cover just staring into my phone. And that was the introduction into this world of publishing. I went through their funnel essentially, discovered publishing and it's an incredible business model.
How it works is you publish a book on Amazon and because Amazon is of course the biggest commerce store online, that has traffic already sorted for you. The biggest thing that most businesses struggle with is traffic. Amazon solved that. They have all the traffic in the world. So if you can optimize your book for podcast SEO and your book ranks for a keyword, you can essentially start selling books, make impact and make money as well. Within that process, you have to pick what niche to go into. Who do you want to serve? That's the first step of publishing the book. And around that time podcasting was taking off and I wish I could say it was, you know, it was divine timing and I had all this crazy master plan and we did it, and we knew it was going to work and we crushed it. But it was none of that. Honestly, it probably came down more to luck than anything. We just liked it. We saw some trends. We were interested and we decided to just dive straight in. So that was how we got into the world of podcasting and it was us having to pick an industry, people and audience to serve with our books. And that's the route we decided to go down.
Wow. And I think your timing is everything, right? So timing is so key to success. And of course, post COVID and during COVID, people started listening to more podcasts. People had more time, people were home more than they were, you know, just driving to work and all this. So I think it became something more people were interested in. So yeah, you were riding that trend at the perfect time. Love it. What value do you see for people to host their own podcasts?
Why should someone host a podcast? If someone's curious about it, it feels overwhelming if you don't understand it, although Vicki and I can tell you it's the most fun thing we get to do of all the stuff we get to do in our business.
I can sit here and tell you like, Hey, get a podcast because it's absolutely blowing up. There are over a hundred million listeners per week in America alone. And that number is only going to go up. You know, I could tell you how billions of dollars in advertising spend is being poured into podcasting.
I can tell you how Joe Rogan, you know, got to close a deal with Spotify for hundreds of millions, probably way more than was advertised. I can tell you how experts you wouldn’t have noticed now have massive platforms where they can share their message, build their impact, build their network and generate clients through their podcasts. But ultimately it comes down to what you want to do. And if you're having an itch or a desire or you've thought about having a podcast because you like the idea of speaking to a friend or speaking to experts in the field or expanding your knowledge, expanding your network or giving back to people. Maybe you've gone through a crazy journey and experience with a particular problem. It could be anxiety, it could be, it could be struggles with business. It could be marriage. It could be relationships. It could be whatever things you've gone through and you want to just share that. So you feel like you're, giving back to the world, a podcast is perfect for that. There is literally no other medium that allows you to connect in a way with someone as podcast, having people in our ear through storytelling, through just hearing someone's voice, their cadence, how they sound. It's such an intimate relationship you get to build with your audience and a very intimate relationship that your audience gets to build with you. If you're on YouTube, for example, compared to other mediums.
If you're on YouTube, I don't know about you guys, but if I watch a YouTube video, I can build a relationship with the YouTuber. I can, right? But to some degree, it still kind of has a feeling of TV. You know, like you kind of know it's a YouTuber being a YouTuber and you kind of know that it's super produced and you know that they have a script and when you get to certain point, you kind of start noticing that. Some people feel authentic and it's still fine. And you still build a relationship. But you kind of have that in back of your mind.
When you listen to the news, God damn it. Firstly, the news, right? Exactly. We’re all like, exactly. There we go. If you do listen to the news, you can't really build a relationship with anchors. It doesn't work like that. And other mediums like TikTok. Great. You see a short, then you see another short, then you see another short. And by the time you go to bed and wake up, you have no idea who these people are and you don't care for them. You know? Compare that to the relationship. And this is - anyone listening to this right now, if you listen to Laura and Vicki, you're experiencing it. If you're here right now it’s because of the relationship and the feeling you get from Laura and Vicki, you feel like you can speak to them. You feel like you know them. You feel like you connect with them in such a deeper way. No other medium can do that. Not even close. You know, so that's what I would say for someone in terms of why do a podcast, the connection you build from it is absolutely incredible. The thing itself is blowing up - starting a podcasts now in 2024 - look at me. I'm living in 2024 guys. If you're starting a podcast in 2025, it's kind of like starting a YouTube channel back in 2010, where there's fewer competition in terms of creators, there's massive demand, but not enough creators. So it’s the perfect opportunity, and time and place to start a podcast right now. And then there's the other business side of it. I could tell you how about, you know, the average podcast listener, they're well educated and the household income is above 75,000 in terms of US dollars per year annually, which is insane, literally insane, which means that if you're doing it for business purposes, the audience you can actually attract from a podcast. This is really important. High ticket, high value clients. Guess what they're not doing? Dude scrolling TikTok trying to connect with potential business owners, you know, guess what they're not doing? Dude scrolling Instagram watching short form clips and consuming that all day long?
Guess what the majority of business owners are doing? They're actively engaging with podcasts, you know, and educators, experts, professionals, they're actively listening to podcasts. Although I semi-find LinkedIn as kind of a meme in a certain ways, a social media platform in terms of the audience that LinkedIn has, is incredible. Super meme-y, super cringe sometimes, but in terms of the audience has been able to cultivate incredible.
I can guarantee that audience, 99% of them are listening actively to podcasts. Now imagine that, right? Imagine that having a platform podcast where the large majority of audience are cultivating are just well-educated, incredible people who are just always looking to learn and also have money to spend on your services and products. Is that not just like the best thing you could probably ask for?
Anthony, we have worked with you in the past. Well, we've worked with you. And we know how much expertise you have in this field. Aside from everything that you've just shared now today, we've seen firsthand how intrinsically you understand this medium and how to really make the most of it. Are we willing to just go a little deeper for our audience on if you already have a podcast, what would the three top things be to make sure, I know there's more than three, but I'm gonna ask you for three, to really leverage that podcast, to really make it count.
What's the thing that really matters?
So I'm going to give you guys the unsexy boring, yawning answer and I'll give you the juicy stuff that you guys are probably looking for. So I think the biggest thing that can determine whether your podcast succeeds, grows, doesn't grow, will come down to the mindset and I'm going to explain what I mean specifically.
So oftentimes we get so, we want to grow a podcast. You have this incredible show, you’re putting out incredible content, you're pouring your heart and soul into it. It's you, it's your baby. And the likelihood is the content probably is really good. And the likelihood is you probably are promoting, you probably are doing supposedly all the right things to grow a podcast. If the show isn't growing, oftentimes nine out of 10 is because how, where the perspective we have around how to actually grow a podcast.
We get so stuck and trapped in this world of strategy and tactic and let me try this social media clip. Let me try this other promotional piece that we kind of don't stop and think of like, what does my podcast actually need in order for it to grow? Just a simple question. What do I actually have to do? Not like, what do I think? What are the people doing? Which is what we tend to do. I do this all the time. I see competitors, I see other people. I'm like, hey, that looks cool. I want to do it, right? But that's not the point. The point is, what does it actually need? And what this will do is you start to realise, okay, well, a podcast is a product. First and foremost, if you see a podcast as a product, how do we view it as a product? Okay. I have to bring this product. This product requires customers, our listeners. Where are those listeners? Right? So if you just view it from like, okay, I have a product and I need to build awareness around this product. It doesn't matter how you build awareness around this product. You just need to build awareness around this product. It changes the strategy and techniques you start to use.
I can give you a very simple example. Most people, I remember I had this amazing client. Her name was Raven, incredible podcaster. She used to have a podcast that was again, doing it for two years, incredible content interviewing experts within relationships and narcissism and empaths and all that stuff. But her podcast wasn't growing. She was doing all the strategy, all the tactics, everything. Nothing worked.
And it was because all this time she was trying to generate attention for a podcast. She was trying to do things to get people to pay attention to the show, which is what you’re supposedly meant to do. But then we realised that there was a far easier way for her to grow. Instead of her just trying to go on social media and promote, promote, promote, we have to just figure out, okay, well, what if we could set something up where listeners were constantly every single day discovering her show? Without her having to do any leg work in terms of actively promoting a podcast. And we're like, well, what allowed you to do that?
And turns out there is a thing and it's called Podcast SEO. So this is a way to rank your podcasts higher in Apple and Spotify. Apple and Spotify are the platforms new listeners are going to to discover new shows to listen to. So super important. You've got 20 million active daily listeners in America alone. 50% of them discover new shows, not through social media, because I can guarantee, guys, name me three, three, just three, what am I supposed to say, three podcasts you still listen to today that you discovered six months ago because of a social media promotional clip.
Yeah, probably not. I'd have a hard time. I could say maybe like one, but yeah, you're right. You're right. Absolutely right.
So we helped her rank her podcast on Apple and Spotify because that’s where her audience was at. Once she’d done that, once she started ranking the key words,
Where the hell is the noise at? How do I get and capture that attention? So that's again, I know that is a boring, unsexy answer that oftentimes people don't want to hear, but is the one that's going to make the most difference in terms of how you view drawing shows. So that's really it. Focus on capturing attention that's already there, rather than trying to generate it. Cool.
I reckon that was a pretty sexy explanation of what SEO is. So thank you for that.
And then the other strategies would be - the second one would be, Okay. Cool we get it but give us some of the tactics. I think that what we've found to work super well and more recently is just collaborating with other podcasts. So where would I see you featuring as a guest on other people's shows. Most podcasters constantly, are constantly, constantly trying to get a big guest on their show. Because they believe if I get a big name celebrity, an authority in a space, guys, he's got a hundred thousand followers. And this is what one of my clients used to do. They would essentially just go after big guests all the time and they were wondering like, hey, I'm getting all these big names on my show. He had a hundred thousand followers, 200,000, a million. I promote the podcast and nothing barely happens. It's barely a budge, which is super frustrating. And he comes to me and says look, Ant why does this keep happening? And I said to him, look, I'll be honest with you. Like right now you're just giving someone else a platform given your platform. Well, what you're doing, you're putting the spotlight on him. You're introducing him to your audience - that part is guaranteed. He's not guaranteed, he doesn't owe you anything to promote your show. Would it be nice? Yeah. Does it happen? No. And then I said to him again, using these principles, again, it's why it is so important using these principles. Okay, well, how can we flip the script? If you're here chasing these guests and you're giving them a spotlight and you're introducing them to your audience, why don't we just get you guesting on other people's show? Why don't we just get you to have, put the spotlight on you where you guest on people's shows, whatever massive stage, they've already built up the audience. They've already built up the like, know, trust. And then you feature as a guest on their podcast and then their audience discovers you in such a unique way because guess what? Podcast listeners listen to other podcasts.
If they like you because they've heard you, they've got the like, know, trust, and we spoke about earlier how it's a very deep relationship you can get with someone. So if they've seen you on someone else's show and they like that show and they like your, your vibe, what are the chances they're going to check out your podcast when you give a promotional piece at the end? What are the chances they’ll go and see what you're doing and listen to an episode and try it out - and find the episode because you're ranked for podcast SEO. You know, so all of these things is like, again, once again, what are we doing.
The first strategy that one of my clients tried was, let me just get these big guests. Let me try to bring the attention my way. No, no, no, no, no. What he needed to do was to capture the attention that was already there. How did he capture it? By being a guest on someone else's podcast, by featuring and being that expert where the spotlight is on him and that way he has what? All the attention on him. That's how you capture attention. Again, it's a mindset thing. Once you can see that, there's so many more of these. Was that good? Do you want me to clarify anything for you guys? Am I making sense here? Is it making sense?
That is making total sense to us, but of course we are in the podcast world ourselves. So for anyone who is not, and is interested, you have your own podcast where you help people with podcasts. Just let people know how they can find out more if they want to dig deeper into how you help.
For sure. So look, if you got to this point and you think that number one, I'm a complete asshole. He likes betting because I don't. That was, that was old days. Um, and you’re at this point and you think, know what, this guy's talking a bit of sense. I've thought about starting a podcast or maybe have a podcast and you just want genuine advice on why your podcast isn't growing or how to grow a podcast, how to build an audience. Many grounded principles you can apply because tactics come and go, but if you're looking for grounded principles, I'd highly recommend checking out our podcast - Why Your Podcast Isn't Growing. Episode number two, that's right. Episode number two, titled Seven Reasons Why Your Podcast Isn't Growing That Noone is Telling You About. And that will really set the ground and the foundation for you. And hey, if you like it amazing, if you don't, you think I'm, you know, like I said, that's totally cool as well. But there you go.
Awesome. We'll do a favour and link in the show notes so people can access it easily and quickly. And we're excited to tell you, Anthony, personally, that we are doing a lot of new work on our podcast. We've got lots of new things coming up, a lot to do with the audit that you helped us with.
So listeners, check it out. We're going to have some solo episodes with just me and Vicki. Well, not solo episodes that are the two of us, which is something new.
we're teaching and sharing more of what we know and love on marketing and launching businesses and helping entrepreneurs to really become resilient. As we're launching the Resilient Entrepreneurs Academy.
So this is a big year for us. We’re super excited and we're using this platform to help get as much information and resources and assistance and value to the people that we want to serve. Much of what you helped us with is getting us there and we're really excited to take this to the next level in podcasting and help others too. So hopefully this episode is helping others.
I believe so. Yeah, that's awesome guys and congratulations. I'm looking forward to it.
What is something on your journey to building your business and the life as an entrepreneur, right? On that journey, what was something you always wanted to achieve or a place you always wanted to get to because you had an expectation? And what was something where it was vastly different to what you thought when you actually achieved that?
That’s a hot question. Do you know I don't think anyone's ever asked us that. It's a biggie. That's a biggie. So I'm going to rephrase it just to make sure I have it right. What one thing have we strived for to achieve and once we achieved it, it looked different to what we thought it would do.
Perfect. That was a much better phrase than the one I asked.
You
I'm not even sure I have an answer to that.
So now I've got you guys thinking. Vicki's like, why did I ask that question to Ant?
Yeah, you do.
Yeah.
No, I love it. And I love a hard question because it does make you dive a little bit deep. I mean, because we're talking about podcasting, I think we could talk about that. I mean, we started this podcast two years, over two years ago, almost two and a half years ago. And of course I thought we would have a hundred thousand followers by now and listeners and downloads and brand deals.
But it definitely is different than I expected. Although a few things have sort of worked out along the way, and we've learned a lot along the way that I didn't expect to learn. One big lesson in podcasting is definitely you got to play the long game.
I think that's one thing I'm really proud of, that we have consistently published every single week. We've not taken this lightly. We've taken it very seriously and we've gotten better at it as we've gone. And if you had told me even just three years ago that I'd be a podcast host, I probably would have laughed at you. Because Vicki talked me into doing a radio show during COVID. And I was like, what? Are you crazy? But we did and we started on this journey of just talking and teaching and learning and growth. And then we started this podcast where we wanted to bring in guest experts and what we've learned, how we've grown, getting to talk to incredible people that are probably unknown and not the biggest, highest celebrities or most well-known business people but people who are far above us in success and in their entrepreneurial journey and to get the chance to have those deep conversations has been the most unexpected and incredible part of doing podcasting that I never thought would be. And it's just amazing and we're so excited for what else is to come.
Yeah, that's an awesome answer. And you've got me thinking as you're talking. It's true that when we started podcasting way back when in internet radio show days, when we were live and then the recording was turned into a podcast later, we never thought that we'd be launching an academy, a resource, it's an academy for entrepreneurs, is what's happening in 2025. And that looks very different to anything I would have expected by launching a podcast. And it really is truly born from this podcast. We called it Resilient Entrepreneurs because at the time we launched, resilience was something that people really were yearning to know about, to learn, to understand better. Now we've talked to over 100 entrepreneurs as Laura said and they've all shared their stories in resilience, we'll ask you yours Ant. And yeah, then from there we realized that these resources and everything that can be built around it and the demand by entrepreneurs wanting a one-stop shop, one place to go for resources, here it is. So who would have known that it really does look different.
That's such an amazing question. I'm going to make a note of that and include that in my questions for clients as well. Thank you Ant.
I love it guys, that's awesome. And congratulations as well. I know that Academy is gonna be absolutely epic. Absolutely epic. I know you guys are working hard, you guys are workers and you really give your all to what you do. So I know it's gonna be something awesome. And when you do that, everything's gonna work out fine, right? So I'm excited for you guys.
Thank you so much.
And we're lucky to have this platform too that we can build it from, which is just amazing. I think you helped us understand that too. That when you have something as a business podcast to present yourself or to sell to your prospective clients, this is such a great platform to be able to do that as well. Cause it is something that helps to build a know, like and trust factor exactly what you talked about. It's a win-win all around and we are very excited about it.
So just one final question, and this again a question we haven't asked in a while, Vicki, but I think it's a good one to finish this podcast off, is what do you think it takes to build resilience? You've spoken about resilience in your story, but what do you think is the most important thing to have for an entrepreneur to find resilience for themselves?
You know...
I'll say for myself and-
what it takes to build resilience. I think it just honestly, whether we like it or not, right, to me, it requires that you go through some level of suffering and pain. I say some level, a lot of suffering and pain to some degree. How that manifests, suffering and pain, whether that's you having to wait an extra two years to hit a goal that you thought was going to take you two months, or whether that's you having a massive failure in business or whether that's just you going through something extremely painful, personally, losing a loved one, you know, having a divorce, going through things mentally, health scares, and having to build a business along the way. It's not easy. So to me, I think just to build resilience, just honestly, if you're thinking to yourself, like, am I resilient? Am I going through it? Just know, like, if you're, if you keep taking a step forward, you keep at it, if you keep, you don't give up and you go through all this shit and you eat all that stuff and you still show up day in and day out. No matter what life throws at you to me, that's building resilience. You can't have resilience, that's, that's, that's a, it's an after effect of going through suffering, going through pain and hardening from that and growing from that. That's the only way to build it. You can't have resilience without going through shit.
I think I heard this quote that was something like, if God wanted, if God, you know, wanted to give a man patience, what would he do? He'll test him all the time. He'll test his patience. You know, if God wanted to build a very strong man, he'll put them through, what, hard times. So I think it's kind of like you can't have one without the others, the yin and the yang. So it's me building resilience, me just going through tough shit and learning and growing from that, you know, and still showing up.
Yeah, I think it was like somebody quoted like the Marvel comics and said, if you look at the story, the hero's journey through any of the Marvel comics characters, the good and the bad, the villain and the hero all go through the same traumatic journey or a traumatic journey. And it's all about the mindset of going through it and growing through it. So exactly what you said is exactly right. I don't think we're born with resilience. I think we build resilience by what we go through and our mindset of getting through it. And then so many of the things that we talk about on this podcast help people to get through it, whether it's the building a community, finding a mentor, getting a coach, you know, working through it, getting therapy, whatever it is that you need to help you to grow through the resilience, through whatever you're going through, then exactly it. So yeah, you're right. Be careful what you pray for.
You're probably going to get the test before you get the result you're praying for, right? It's exactly right. So thank you so much. What an incredible conversation. So impressed by you. You are still so young and you are still growing. And we know there's still massive success to come in your future because you have the right mindset. You built some resilience. I'm sure there's more. More tests are coming in your life because that's just part of life. know, it just is what it is but you're always building from a platform of knowing. And if you're building from knowing and service, success is inevitable. So thank you so much for sharing everything you did, hopefully inspiring some entrepreneurs out there that if you're not gonna even create your own podcast, that's fine, but perhaps being a guest on a podcast is a really, really great way to build your profile and help that know, like, and trust factor that's so important in whatever you do. So if you're not gonna host, guest, come talk to us, learn from Anthony. He has an incredible podcast with everything you could ever want to know about podcasting. He's going to help to tell you he gives really actionable tips and deep dives and it's incredible. So please listen in. Like I said, we'll share it in the show notes so you can find him. Anthony, just want to thank you so much for your time today. This was amazing. I appreciate you.
Thank you guys.
